Providence Lost: The Rise and Fall of Cromwell’s Protectorate

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 7:16 AM UTC

laurencerowe wrote: post #42

eternalban wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I have to say that running into a partisan defending the honor of the late Mohammad Reza Pahlavi on the internet is a new experience." Yeh, it's called "propaganda". As you can see, it works. However you have chosen in your oblique reponse to not respond to a simple question: what is your definition of puppet? And how does Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi qualify per that standard? Looking forward to your thoughtful respo…

I imagine being the beneficiary of the 1953 US/UK backed coup would qualify him for puppet status.

Post by coribuci » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 7:26 AM UTC

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #14

dev_north_east wrote: post #3

> albeit well over 300 years later, and as further proof that the Irish have perhaps the longest memories in the world. Oh right. At what point do historical figures get a free pass on bringing up their bad doings? And by bad doings, we're talking deaths in the hundreds of thousands, enforced slavery etc.

“Irish slavery” is usually a sign someone is a racist asshole who has no idea what they’re talking about.

Post by unmole » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 10:24 AM UTC

dev_north_east wrote: post #17

alphadevx wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see Britain become a republic some day for their benefit (up to them of course to vote on that), but agree they need a better hero.

I used to be of that mindset (re: become a republic) but tbh I'm more of the line of thinking, if it ain't broke... With the parliamentary style of government, you need a figurehead. So you'd have to tear up a whole host of UK conventions going back centuries and re-jig everything, just so someone else gets the ceremonial role? Much as some might like a complete re-write, I say expand the unit tests around it if mino…

Post by LatteLazy » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 10:58 AM UTC

LongMemory wrote: post #6

dev_north_east wrote: post #3

> albeit well over 300 years later, and as further proof that the Irish have perhaps the longest memories in the world. Oh right. At what point do historical figures get a free pass on bringing up their bad doings? And by bad doings, we're talking deaths in the hundreds of thousands, enforced slavery etc.

Yeah, I am Irish and I think that patriotism is a disease. But even so, historical figures who have reputations for ethnic cleansing and genocide [1] should not be forgotten OR forgiven. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian_conquest_of_Irelan...

Post by eternalban » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 12:33 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #31

eternalban wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must object to your "puppet monarch" comment here. By the standards of 'puppetry' that we can discern from historic documents the Shah of Iran was no more of a puppet than a certain "poodle". Do you always prefix "puppet minister" before say mentioning Tony Blair or any of the post Suez UK PMs? People like you who in the tradition of "lingering propaganda" continue to cast calumny on the late Shah of Iran need to l…

From the point of view of the revolutionaries , who objected to "foreign influence". Regardless of how much the Shah was under American influence or Charles I under Papal influence, the perception that they were was used against them by their enemies. (I have to say that running into a partisan defending the honor of the late Mohammad Reza Pahlavi on the internet is a new experience. I was sort of expecting someone t…