Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users • Hacker News Board

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#51

Post by Qub3d » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

rpmcmurdo wrote: post #37

The irony is that the people complaining about this are the same ones who are gleefully sharing their personal details and narrative on social media, and Facebook in particular. The only difference between mass surveillance in the US and China is that 99% of the US population happily opts in or doesn't care.

But the US population does opt in, at least to the degree that ignoring social pressure allows someone to say no.

Of course its difficult to go around "off the grid"; most of these services became big precisely because they make aspects of life easier -- ergo not using them means life is more difficult. But it is feasible to refuse adding data to them without actively violating the law, which is the point of concern.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#52

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #50

The title sounds intentionally provocative -- "face scanned" appears to be just "have their photo taken". I can't find a single source that suggests anything more than that. Which isn't much different from having your photo taken for your driver's license, passport, or at the border, all of which the US does. Burner phones are mostly associated with criminal activity, so tying phones to identities feels like a legiti…

It would be valuable for technologists to be mindful of the difference between explanation and exhortation, lest they be seen as shifting the moral/legal burden for the operation of a social system entirely onto the shoulders of the individual users who have the least control over it.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#53

Post by jariel » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 7:07 PM UTC

gregimba wrote: post #27

Traveling to Germany I had to provide my passport to get a SIM card. When I was going through customs stateside I had a photo taken with my passport. Not sure if this is the new standard but other countries are implementing the same laws/procedures and while I disagree with china we shouldn't hold them to a different standard than other nations.

"we shouldn't hold them to a different standard than other nations."

We are not. Border security is a legit issue, it's why we have passports in the first place. They are an international standard, almost nobody objects to.

A nation has a reasonable right to require ID in order to purchase a SIM, particularly from foreigners.

The issue with China is that the 'photo' in question will be used to to train the AI such that they can identify every citizen, at any time, in any situation and control everything about them and their lives at any given moment.

The 'double standard', if anything, is the fact that so many things the US decides to do is held up to extreme scrutiny and consternation by anyone, even when there are reasonable grounds, whereas it seems there are so many people interested in applying an ambiguous moral duplicity with China.

Particularly among those interested in developing deeper business interests in China ...

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#54

Post by dang » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 7:07 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #50

The title sounds intentionally provocative -- "face scanned" appears to be just "have their photo taken". I can't find a single source that suggests anything more than that. Which isn't much different from having your photo taken for your driver's license, passport, or at the border, all of which the US does. Burner phones are mostly associated with criminal activity, so tying phones to identities feels like a legiti…

Ok, we've put "photo taken" in the title above. Thanks.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#55

Post by grecy » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 7:08 PM UTC

classichasclass wrote: post #24

Not that there's any moral equivalence, but when I'm in Australia visiting in-laws, I have to provide my passport or similar ID to get my PAYG SIM activated. I just have them swipe it at the airport and my SIM is on in 10 minutes. My wife admits it's a lot easier in the States to get a PAYG SIM; AT&T doesn't care who she is as long as there's money in the account. I'm not sure why Australia does that, but it's really…

I just drove around Africa, and I bought a pre-paid SIM in about 30 different countries. Every single one of them required a copy of my passport.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#56

Post by EpicEng » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

elliotlee wrote: post #12

I searched for the law. They need a photo id for a new phone number to reduce phone scams. I think it is good.

Oh, look; a brand spanking new HN account backing China on this one! Yes, why would it be bad news for an authoritarian government to strengthen its hold on its people. Those spam calls are so annoying!

BTW, those spammers aren't sitting there on cell phones making calls.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#57

Post by epx » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

In Brazil, was taken a face picture when lost a phone and had to get a new SIM card, no change in number or contract.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#58

Post by dang » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #28

Canadian here: Ezra Levant is far, far right. He was part of the now defunct Sun news Network. This may be a case of a broken clock being right twice a day. He's basically the Canadian version of Breitbart.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21685294 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#59

Post by dang » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

namewasmypw wrote: post #26

Please don't link to tweets by fascists. The information is valuable so you can link to the original source instead of the tweetspam that gives this shithead exposure.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21685294 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#60

Post by dang » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 7:10 PM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #56

elliotlee wrote: post #12

I searched for the law. They need a photo id for a new phone number to reduce phone scams. I think it is good.

Oh, look; a brand spanking new HN account backing China on this one! Yes, why would it be bad news for an authoritarian government to strengthen its hold on its people. Those spam calls are so annoying! BTW, those spammers aren't sitting there on cell phones making calls.

You can't attack a new user like that, regardless of how strongly you disagree with them. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here.

The damage of punishing someone innocent is orders of magnitude greater than the benefit (or pleasure) of scourging villains, so please err on the side of being a welcoming community member. The last thing HN needs is to stew in its own juices with "Keep Out" signs nailed to the clubhouse everywhere.