Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 67 posts

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#51

Post by throwaway_shame »

montalbano wrote: post #22
musicale wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't going to change. You should do everything in your power to get a better supervisor, particularly for your dissertation research. You're early enough in the process that starting a new project, or modifying your current project, is completely worth it to get a better supervisor who actually supports you and will help you graduate. Talk to other grad students to see what they think of their advisors. Also yo…

I just finished my PhD. My first half was with a supervisor similar to what OP described. Fortunately I was able to transfer halfway through to a much better supervisor. I have seen both sides, having a good supervisor makes a massive difference. Even so, now that I am finished, the emotional drain of the first two years and lack of time to properly recover has left me completely BURNT OUT. OP, please take the advice…

I am glad that you were able to get a better supervisor. Did you face any kind of retaliation from your first supervisor?

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#52

Post by AnimalMuppet »

That one conversation I had in the engineering building parking lot, with that one guy that I don't even remember who he was... he persuaded me that going into grad school in physics, chasing the unified field theory, wasn't a useful use of my life. Seeing all this makes me very grateful for that conversation. Thank you, whoever you were.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#53

Post by throwaway_shame »

kaybe wrote: post #24
throwaway_shame wrote: post #8

I am currently a master's student and about to start PhD in one of the top AI labs. I already feel mentally exhausted with all the indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails, withholding stipend for several months and so on. It's a disaster and I never imagined myself in this situation. I hope things change soon.

The others are right, it is probably not going to change. From that short sentence it seems that your supervisor is doing a lot of things at once and you are low in the priority list. I don't think it's personal (unless you have clear evidence for the contrary). If you're not ok with that (some people prefer being able to work in peace) and you cannot change it (some profs are like cats, show them something interesti…

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I definitely agree that it is not personal. I feel lucky for doing MS and not doing a PhD right off the bat which allowed me to find what works for me.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#54

Post by montalbano »

throwaway_shame wrote: post #51
montalbano wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just finished my PhD. My first half was with a supervisor similar to what OP described. Fortunately I was able to transfer halfway through to a much better supervisor. I have seen both sides, having a good supervisor makes a massive difference. Even so, now that I am finished, the emotional drain of the first two years and lack of time to properly recover has left me completely BURNT OUT. OP, please take the advice…

I am glad that you were able to get a better supervisor. Did you face any kind of retaliation from your first supervisor?

Not in my case due to details I can't go into.

But in general direct or indirect retaliation is a risk and is why it is so important for you to do something ASAP.

I don't know all the details of your situation but based on what you said in OP it might be advisable to switch. The sooner you do the less time you might 'waste' in an unfruitful project and the less time and money the supervisor has invested in you, so they might be less likely to retaliate.

Further, it also might be considered 'professionally embarrassing' for the supervisor if you ask to switch during the PhD. At the stage you are now you could probably change in a way that saves you hassle and the supervisors face by diplomatically posing the change as a mere change in 'academic interests', i.e. slightly different project with a favourable supervisor.

Of course you should suss out the possible alternative supervisors first and try and meet them and their students to make sure they are actually favourable to your current prof.

These are just the first points that come to mind, happy to answer other questions if you would like (see my gmail in profile).

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#55

Post by mygo »

bonniemuffin wrote: post #30
mikorym wrote: post #23

I started to work instead of doing a PhD and I think it was a good decision. The sad part is having less time and progressing more slowly with research (outside of one's job, whatever it may be) but maybe it's better than not having a job and also progressing slowly doing a PhD full time. As an aside, if you have a clear research interest already (which many PhD naturally take a long time to find) then I don't think…

I'm glad you called out biology as a counterexample. In my grad school/postdoc experience, publishing a meaningful paper in the wet lab biosciences often requires tens of thousands of dollars in consumable materials, as well as $100k+ of lab hardware. Casual garage researchers have very little opportunity to contribute to the field in meaningful ways.

I 100% echo this. My biggest gripe about my biology degree was that there wasn’t much research I could do without either access to a lab or being Bruce Wayne. The single best thing that can happen to biology research would be to figure out a way to reduce these barriers tremendously, either via more access or by more affordable technology. So I’m excited about recent developments in synthetic biology.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#56

Post by mygo »

ISL wrote: post #47
bonniemuffin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you called out biology as a counterexample. In my grad school/postdoc experience, publishing a meaningful paper in the wet lab biosciences often requires tens of thousands of dollars in consumable materials, as well as $100k+ of lab hardware. Casual garage researchers have very little opportunity to contribute to the field in meaningful ways.

The most important ingredient in research is time. Don't count out garage research. There is no substitute for professionalism in research, no matter the venue. Hard work, best practices, collaboration, and expertise are all essential. I am presently in a time of change in my own research career, and a garage laboratory underwritten by an industrial job is beginning to look quite tempting. There are a lot of advantag…

I would love to learn more about how you go about running your own lab! How can I follow?

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#57

Post by mygo »

diffeomorphism wrote: post #46
pergadad wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't it be easy(ier) to get the PhD when you've already worked and published for 10 years in the field?

That seems like a completely different question. Suppose somebody does a brilliant Master's thesis and afterwards quickly writes two more good papers. He/She could get a PhD immediately at that point as far as research is concerned, but would benefit from waiting a bit longer and also getting mentorship etc. . A person who worked and published for 10 years for all purposes already was doing PhD work for 10 years and…

People can go their whole lifetime without making novel contributions to a field. If an arbitrary time limit is required to have a PhD, I feel like it probably discounts the implications of what kind of individual one needs to be to make novel contributions at a young age in less time.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#58

Post by ISL »

mygo wrote: post #56
ISL wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most important ingredient in research is time. Don't count out garage research. There is no substitute for professionalism in research, no matter the venue. Hard work, best practices, collaboration, and expertise are all essential. I am presently in a time of change in my own research career, and a garage laboratory underwritten by an industrial job is beginning to look quite tempting. There are a lot of advantag…

I would love to learn more about how you go about running your own lab! How can I follow?

At the moment, I work at the University of Washington's CENPA but my departure from academia is likely. Whether I leave academia or not, the best way to follow my scientific work is through my publications:

https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=vi-A5dkAAAAJ...

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#59

Post by dr_dshiv »

jasonhong wrote: post #37
dr_dshiv wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really true. We need more examples of people completing PhDs in 1-2 years because they've already done the research and written most of the thesis. It's totally possible.

Part of the reason it typically takes 5-6 years to complete a PhD (in computer science at least) is because it takes a long time to learn the methods, the skills, and the large body of past work, as well as just becoming a member of the research community (via attending workshops and conferences, publishing paper, and reviewing). It's possible to complete a PhD in 2-3 years, but this also typically leaves no room for…

Also CMU alum. Why anyone would WANT to rush a PhD, I don't know. I had to finish faster than my peers because I started a business half way through -- and I was either going to complete in 6 months or never. So I finished up in a hurry. I am a tenure track professor & CEO -- which works so long as you don't care about anything at all. But that's separate.

My point is, and I'm four beers in, is that my head of data science is so good, he has been mentored by me for years (fwiw), and he has published a lot -- I feel he is the perfect candidate for completing a PhD asap. I think he needs two years for acculturation.

In that paradigm, smart folk in industry could publish papers and then take 2 years to get a doctorate --- and I think the world would be better for it.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#60

Post by mygo »

ISL wrote: post #58
mygo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to learn more about how you go about running your own lab! How can I follow?

At the moment, I work at the University of Washington's CENPA but my departure from academia is likely. Whether I leave academia or not, the best way to follow my scientific work is through my publications: https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=vi-A5dkAAAAJ...

Thanks — btw I’m interested in the garage laboratory you mentioned. The process of how you go about setting up and running an independent lab, etc. If you end up doing that, I’d like to follow that. Would that be on Google Scholar?
Post reply on HN