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Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

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Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#41

Post by pergadad »

ISL wrote: post #34
dr_dshiv wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really true. We need more examples of people completing PhDs in 1-2 years because they've already done the research and written most of the thesis. It's totally possible.

That misses the learning process in a PhD program. A PhD is not just the thesis work, it is also the education and mentorship that is generally necessary to become an expert in both a broad field and a specialty.

Why shouldn't it be easy(ier) to get the PhD when you've already worked and published for 10 years in the field?

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#43

Post by ISL »

throwaway_shame wrote: post #8

I am currently a master's student and about to start PhD in one of the top AI labs. I already feel mentally exhausted with all the indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails, withholding stipend for several months and so on. It's a disaster and I never imagined myself in this situation. I hope things change soon.

Don't forget to value yourself. The relationship between you and your advisor is deeply personal, especially for you.

It is important to periodically evaluate whether or not your situation is a good one. If it is not, it may be time to make a change.

The structures of academia can lead to outcomes where good-intentioned people to take actions (or often, inactions) that are, in an absolute sense, abusive. When academia is good, it can be great, but is essential to recognize when things are not okay and take steps to make them better. Communication is often a great first step.

A wise friend once passed on an aphorism that has been useful to me: "Hope is not a strategy."

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#45

Post by lilott8 »

ksey3 wrote: post #4

Sometimes I think PhD's should be awarded to Groups or atleast Pairs of researchers. Let the group find each other and defend a thesis. If the group breaks apart they loose their certification of expertise. And can reform and reprove it. Those who want to do things alone can, ofcourse do things the old way. This would reduce the the unrealistic expectations on some folk who work better in groups, while allowing them…

My advisor pseudo follows this. He does his best to bring in pairs of students that will be on _similar_ topics. (of course they are both responsible for their independent research and thesis). That way they can struggle together and find their way, it helps lesson the burden he has as idea generation now is covered and "getting stuck" is less worrisome as you are stuck with someone. As the students grow, they separate into their own thesis but the great part is they tend to still collaborate with their peer, so even by thesis end, both know each other's thesis pretty well.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#46

Post by diffeomorphism »

pergadad wrote: post #41
ISL wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That misses the learning process in a PhD program. A PhD is not just the thesis work, it is also the education and mentorship that is generally necessary to become an expert in both a broad field and a specialty.

Why shouldn't it be easy(ier) to get the PhD when you've already worked and published for 10 years in the field?

That seems like a completely different question.

Suppose somebody does a brilliant Master's thesis and afterwards quickly writes two more good papers. He/She could get a PhD immediately at that point as far as research is concerned, but would benefit from waiting a bit longer and also getting mentorship etc. .

A person who worked and published for 10 years for all purposes already was doing PhD work for 10 years and thus can more or less staple some works together to get PhD whenever they want to.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#47

Post by ISL »

bonniemuffin wrote: post #30
mikorym wrote: post #23

I started to work instead of doing a PhD and I think it was a good decision. The sad part is having less time and progressing more slowly with research (outside of one's job, whatever it may be) but maybe it's better than not having a job and also progressing slowly doing a PhD full time. As an aside, if you have a clear research interest already (which many PhD naturally take a long time to find) then I don't think…

I'm glad you called out biology as a counterexample. In my grad school/postdoc experience, publishing a meaningful paper in the wet lab biosciences often requires tens of thousands of dollars in consumable materials, as well as $100k+ of lab hardware. Casual garage researchers have very little opportunity to contribute to the field in meaningful ways.

The most important ingredient in research is time. Don't count out garage research.

There is no substitute for professionalism in research, no matter the venue. Hard work, best practices, collaboration, and expertise are all essential.

I am presently in a time of change in my own research career, and a garage laboratory underwritten by an industrial job is beginning to look quite tempting. There are a lot of advantages, but the onus is heavily on the researcher to choose research directions that are compatible with that environment.

Barbara McClintock did her most-famous work in a shed with a small adjoining cornfield. I'm happy to wager that there are major discoveries left in biology to be made with similar equipment. The key is being able to eat, sleep, support loved ones, be healthy, and be able to get some research done.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#49

Post by throwaway_shame »

hatmatrix wrote: post #18
throwaway_shame wrote: post #8

I am currently a master's student and about to start PhD in one of the top AI labs. I already feel mentally exhausted with all the indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails, withholding stipend for several months and so on. It's a disaster and I never imagined myself in this situation. I hope things change soon.

> indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails Are you sure this is a deliberate strategy

I don't claim this to be deliberate and I am sure my supervisor is good human being and it is nothing personal. Simultaneously I also think it is not difficult to see what effect this causes deliberate or not.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#50

Post by throwaway_shame »

musicale wrote: post #10
throwaway_shame wrote: post #8

I am currently a master's student and about to start PhD in one of the top AI labs. I already feel mentally exhausted with all the indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails, withholding stipend for several months and so on. It's a disaster and I never imagined myself in this situation. I hope things change soon.

This isn't going to change. You should do everything in your power to get a better supervisor, particularly for your dissertation research. You're early enough in the process that starting a new project, or modifying your current project, is completely worth it to get a better supervisor who actually supports you and will help you graduate. Talk to other grad students to see what they think of their advisors. Also yo…

Very helpful advice. I am trying to extend my masters by another 8 months and work with other professors in the department to make the switch. Fingers crossed :)
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