Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

laphamsquarterly.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 104 posts

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#51

Post by alexanderthe- »

nestorD wrote: post #9

My understanding, after reading the memoir of Bernal diaz Del Castillo[0] (who was an eye witness of the conquest of Mexico), is that it was Montezuma II who purposefully spread rumors saying that the conquistador were returning gods so that people would stop fighting them and start trading with them. It was not superstitious belief from ignorant savages, it was a political move. [0]: which I highly recommend, they a…

I don't recall that being mentioned in Bernal Diaz del Castillo's "The Conquest of New Spain". I've also read "The Broken Spears", an Aztec account of the conquest which was recorded once surviving members of the Conquest or their descendants had learned written language. In both accounts, it appeared that there had been forewarning of "Gods" from the east who would conquer the Aztecs from the priestly / ruling caste of the Aztecs. The whole story is really quite interesting, but wearisome on ones soul, I would highly recommend both books if you have the constitution for it. Werner Herzog recommends reading "The Conquest of New Spain" to "... understand the hearts of men."

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#52

Post by wayoutthere »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #19
nestorD wrote: post #9

My understanding, after reading the memoir of Bernal diaz Del Castillo[0] (who was an eye witness of the conquest of Mexico), is that it was Montezuma II who purposefully spread rumors saying that the conquistador were returning gods so that people would stop fighting them and start trading with them. It was not superstitious belief from ignorant savages, it was a political move. [0]: which I highly recommend, they a…

This is a fascinating story for reasons that have nothing to do with the Spanish or Aztecs. This is a story about technology and the internet; also it's about how history cycles. The Spanish were probably a poor reporter of the conditions they encountered. Even if they had tried to be completely objective, they would have had a very difficult time explaining what they saw without a lot of context they didn't have. I…

It's the same pathos vs logos argument that has been well documented over the last 3000+ years. Emotion and logic have always been at odds.

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#53

Post by yorwba »

commandlinefan wrote: post #41
nestorD wrote: post #9

My understanding, after reading the memoir of Bernal diaz Del Castillo[0] (who was an eye witness of the conquest of Mexico), is that it was Montezuma II who purposefully spread rumors saying that the conquistador were returning gods so that people would stop fighting them and start trading with them. It was not superstitious belief from ignorant savages, it was a political move. [0]: which I highly recommend, they a…

What one tour guide in Teotlihuacan told me (so take it FWIW) was that tall, blond-haired, blue-eyed vikings found a route to Mexico hundreds of years before the Spaniards, traded with the indigenous people for a while, and then left. Images of those people made it into their popular culture and, since they looked so different than the people of the region, those images took on an air of mystery. When people who look…

Sounds like the kind of story a tour guide would tell tourists who skew more blond-and-blue-eyed than the typical Spanish conquistador. Evidence of Norse settlements in America is pretty much limited to Canada; so even legends about them as far south as Mexico would be a big deal.

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#55

Post by xamuel »

acollins1331 wrote: post #33
willvarfar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why do people believe in the bible etc? Billions of people all over the world seem prepared to accept what religious leaders claim to be true. I guess they are all savages?

No, but they are all ignorant. That's the whole point. You can come to your own conclusions about your own religious beliefs, but if you blindly accept what someone tells you, you are acting in ignorance. Again, you're choosing to use the word savage.

You seem to have this idea that people pick up the Bible, read "Jesus walked on water", and go "Wow, praise God!" In actuality, what matters isn't the claims the Bible makes, but the actual words that Jesus and the prophets speak. These words are packed with timeless superhuman wisdom, sort of like ancient Greek philosophers except on steroids. A sincere Christian wrestles with God and with the scriptures.

"The seed sown on rocky ground is the one who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he remains for only a season. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away." (Matthew 13:20-21)

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#56

Post by protomyth »

werpon wrote: post #6
Svip wrote: post #2

Because it makes the Conquistadors' conquests of the New World seem more appetising? Because it downplays the indiscriminate conquering of the Americas? Spain commemorates the day Columbus discovered America as its national day, as it ushered in a golden age for Spain, which is true enough. But with the atrocities inflicted by Spain (along with the other European powers) on the natives in the New World, it may have b…

Spaniard here. I don't think I've ever read or heard a sugarcoated version of the conquest. In fact it's usually the opposite. October 12 is indeed the day Columbus set foot on the New World and also our national holiday, but I fail to see how it's different from other holidays such as Thanksgiving.

Well, I'm at a community college on a reservation and we certainly celebrate Thanksgiving but don't take off for Columbus day. So, I would say its viewed rather differently.

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#57

Post by thedaemon »

willvarfar wrote: post #25
acollins1331 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's based in literally nothing... I wouldn't use the word savages but I'd use the word ignorant, I believe that's the entire definition of the word actually.

So why do people believe in the bible etc? Billions of people all over the world seem prepared to accept what religious leaders claim to be true. I guess they are all savages?

Religion answers the questions that we have no answers for. So it's comforting for most humans to have answers to these kinds of questions. That's one reason why they believe the bible. "on est tous des sauvages"

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#58

Post by darkwater »

spanxx wrote: post #48
darkwater wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err, because the American continent IS NOT Spain, nor part of it? Because the current Spain state should not celebrate what a previous empire conquered? Still celebrating the national day on Oct 12th is a complete shame, and let one wonder how is still imperialism inside the Spain way of thinking. Spain national day should be Dec 6th, when the current Constitution was approved.

Another victim of Black Legend...

Please enlighten me

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#59

Post by willvarfar »

golergka wrote: post #47
lr4444lr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Montezuma's subjects believed his religious lie, doesn't that imply they were ignorant savages?

Having peasant-level subjects believe the mystic stuff peddled by the state propaganda machine paints the civilization as "ignorant savages" to a much lesser degree than a head of state believing the mystic stuff themselves.

At the time the heads of European states believed they had a god-given right to rule etc.

Why does an American president have to swear on a bible, even nowadays?

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#60

Post by wayoutthere »

jcranmer wrote: post #18
627467 wrote: post #12

I'm surprised not to find any mention to the diseases brought by the conquistadores. Quick glance at literature seems to indicate a consensus on the outsized importance of diseases in demographic changes in the Americas. Just over 100 years before the arrival of Cortés, Europe was going through similar epidemic disaster with the Black Plague also brought through intercontinental contact between people's. Then, the pl…

The diseases do not appear to have been a particularly major factor in the defeat of the Aztec Triple Alliance, mostly occurring after the polity had already collapsed.

Disease was indeed a huge factor, but like all imperial conquests, the technology advantage (steel weapons / armor in this case) likely made the biggest difference.
Post reply on HN