Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

laphamsquarterly.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 104 posts

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#41

Post by commandlinefan »

nestorD wrote: post #9

My understanding, after reading the memoir of Bernal diaz Del Castillo[0] (who was an eye witness of the conquest of Mexico), is that it was Montezuma II who purposefully spread rumors saying that the conquistador were returning gods so that people would stop fighting them and start trading with them. It was not superstitious belief from ignorant savages, it was a political move. [0]: which I highly recommend, they a…

What one tour guide in Teotlihuacan told me (so take it FWIW) was that tall, blond-haired, blue-eyed vikings found a route to Mexico hundreds of years before the Spaniards, traded with the indigenous people for a while, and then left. Images of those people made it into their popular culture and, since they looked so different than the people of the region, those images took on an air of mystery. When people who looked like what were by then ancient paintings appeared again, the indigenous people didn't consider them necessarily immortal, but mystical.

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#42

Post by romaaeterna »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #30
nestorD wrote: post #9

My understanding, after reading the memoir of Bernal diaz Del Castillo[0] (who was an eye witness of the conquest of Mexico), is that it was Montezuma II who purposefully spread rumors saying that the conquistador were returning gods so that people would stop fighting them and start trading with them. It was not superstitious belief from ignorant savages, it was a political move. [0]: which I highly recommend, they a…

> My understanding, after reading the memoir of Bernal diaz Del Castillo[0] (who was an eye witness of the conquest of Mexico) Diaz's account was written 50 years after it had happened and is generally considered by modern scholars to be of dubious accuracy and primarily intended as a self-serving defense of his own wealth later in life. As Adorno writes, "At issue were not the wars long since won or lost but rather…

> The linked article has the benefit of 400 years of additional scholarship beyond Diaz's account.

Scholarship on what documents? If you don't have new evidence, all you have is every generation's new academic fads applied to the same old text. This isn't Physics. Progress is unlikely.

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#43

Post by soylentcola »

willvarfar wrote: post #29
lentil_soup wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Thanksgiving is comparable. Spain celebrating the 12th of October as its national day is as if England celebrated Thanksgiving as its own national day.

I don't understand why Thanksgiving is celebrated at all. Its a bunch of religious bigots who left England for Holland because England was too religiously tolerant. They then had to leave Holland because they felt threatened by the fact that their children didn't want to continue their religion and were 'going native'. So they head off to the English colonies in America where they settle land cleared of native Indian…

Regardless of the specific framing of Thanksgiving, it seems like lots of cultures have some sort of seasonal harvest feast or festival (at least those originating in climates that support a seasonal planting/harvesting cycle).

I won't lie. Even though I'm a city dweller far removed from that agrarian lifestyle, I have zero problem with a nice yearly feast with friends and family. That aspect has a universal appeal I think.

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#44

Post by freddie_mercury »

romaaeterna wrote: post #42
freddie_mercury wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My understanding, after reading the memoir of Bernal diaz Del Castillo[0] (who was an eye witness of the conquest of Mexico) Diaz's account was written 50 years after it had happened and is generally considered by modern scholars to be of dubious accuracy and primarily intended as a self-serving defense of his own wealth later in life. As Adorno writes, "At issue were not the wars long since won or lost but rather…

> The linked article has the benefit of 400 years of additional scholarship beyond Diaz's account. Scholarship on what documents? If you don't have new evidence, all you have is every generation's new academic fads applied to the same old text. This isn't Physics. Progress is unlikely.

The linked article discusses the additional documents beyond Diaz's account.

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#45

Post by cujo »

nestorD wrote: post #9

My understanding, after reading the memoir of Bernal diaz Del Castillo[0] (who was an eye witness of the conquest of Mexico), is that it was Montezuma II who purposefully spread rumors saying that the conquistador were returning gods so that people would stop fighting them and start trading with them. It was not superstitious belief from ignorant savages, it was a political move. [0]: which I highly recommend, they a…

>Montezuma II who purposefully spread rumors saying that the conquistador were returning gods so that people would stop fighting them and start trading with them.

>It was not superstitious belief from ignorant savages, it was a political move.

Your message suggests it was a political move that prayed up on superstitious beliefs. So, both, basically.

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#46

Post by lardo »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #30
nestorD wrote: post #9

My understanding, after reading the memoir of Bernal diaz Del Castillo[0] (who was an eye witness of the conquest of Mexico), is that it was Montezuma II who purposefully spread rumors saying that the conquistador were returning gods so that people would stop fighting them and start trading with them. It was not superstitious belief from ignorant savages, it was a political move. [0]: which I highly recommend, they a…

> My understanding, after reading the memoir of Bernal diaz Del Castillo[0] (who was an eye witness of the conquest of Mexico) Diaz's account was written 50 years after it had happened and is generally considered by modern scholars to be of dubious accuracy and primarily intended as a self-serving defense of his own wealth later in life. As Adorno writes, "At issue were not the wars long since won or lost but rather…

Have you read it? If it were written as a self-serving defense it hasn't aged well. It's incredibly self-incriminating.

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#47

Post by golergka »

lr4444lr wrote: post #20
nestorD wrote: post #9

My understanding, after reading the memoir of Bernal diaz Del Castillo[0] (who was an eye witness of the conquest of Mexico), is that it was Montezuma II who purposefully spread rumors saying that the conquistador were returning gods so that people would stop fighting them and start trading with them. It was not superstitious belief from ignorant savages, it was a political move. [0]: which I highly recommend, they a…

If Montezuma's subjects believed his religious lie, doesn't that imply they were ignorant savages?

Having peasant-level subjects believe the mystic stuff peddled by the state propaganda machine paints the civilization as "ignorant savages" to a much lesser degree than a head of state believing the mystic stuff themselves.

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#48

Post by spanxx »

darkwater wrote: post #26
werpon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spaniard here. I don't think I've ever read or heard a sugarcoated version of the conquest. In fact it's usually the opposite. October 12 is indeed the day Columbus set foot on the New World and also our national holiday, but I fail to see how it's different from other holidays such as Thanksgiving.

Err, because the American continent IS NOT Spain, nor part of it? Because the current Spain state should not celebrate what a previous empire conquered? Still celebrating the national day on Oct 12th is a complete shame, and let one wonder how is still imperialism inside the Spain way of thinking. Spain national day should be Dec 6th, when the current Constitution was approved.

Another victim of Black Legend...

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#49

Post by spanxx »

saiya-jin wrote: post #32
werpon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spaniard here. I don't think I've ever read or heard a sugarcoated version of the conquest. In fact it's usually the opposite. October 12 is indeed the day Columbus set foot on the New World and also our national holiday, but I fail to see how it's different from other holidays such as Thanksgiving.

I would be really surprised if you actually got raw version of history as it happened at school. Very few countries actually admit properly their past mistakes (Germany and WWII might be rather an exception). Raw version would be somewhere along the lines of "our ancestors were among the most horrible arrogant ignorant humans that ever lived if measured by the amount of evil done unto the others, and we are deeply as…

Do you have any sources of that? Claiming 8 million people were slaved is a bit of stretch, don't you think?

Re: Why was it believed that the Aztecs greeted Cortés as a deity?

#50

Post by senorjazz »

willvarfar wrote: post #29
lentil_soup wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Thanksgiving is comparable. Spain celebrating the 12th of October as its national day is as if England celebrated Thanksgiving as its own national day.

I don't understand why Thanksgiving is celebrated at all. Its a bunch of religious bigots who left England for Holland because England was too religiously tolerant. They then had to leave Holland because they felt threatened by the fact that their children didn't want to continue their religion and were 'going native'. So they head off to the English colonies in America where they settle land cleared of native Indian…

I had always assumed Thanks Giving was similar to the Harvest Festival celebrated in (at least) England (and assumed other parts of UK).

Just being thankful for a good harvest.

Post reply on HN