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Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

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Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#51

Post by sveme »

notlukesky wrote: post #45
sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

Is Germany an authoritarian regime when it tries to silence journalists and charge them with treason when they expose mass surveillance covering communications, Facebook and Twitter chats etc...?? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/10/treason_case_agains...

I don't understand your point. What's your argument?

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#52

Post by adrianN »

wolfgke wrote: post #34
adrianN wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're still looking for a C++ job in Berlin, drop me an email.

If you are talking about think-cell: about 1.5 years ago, I applied, but was rejected after the programming test (even though they liked my CV and had to admit that the C++ code that I sent in was of decent quality). Let me put it this way: I am more of a deep thinker than a fast thinker and (to put it in mathematical terms) more of a theory maker than a problem solver (i.e. I prefer Alexander Grothendieck over Paul…

Solving interview problems is something that can be trained fairly effectively. Investing a few dozen hours into doing that improves your chances in coding interviews a lot. I tanked my first job interview (at Google) because I didn't know how to prepare. The next interviews I did much better.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#53

Post by sveme »

wolfgke wrote: post #34
adrianN wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're still looking for a C++ job in Berlin, drop me an email.

If you are talking about think-cell: about 1.5 years ago, I applied, but was rejected after the programming test (even though they liked my CV and had to admit that the C++ code that I sent in was of decent quality). Let me put it this way: I am more of a deep thinker than a fast thinker and (to put it in mathematical terms) more of a theory maker than a problem solver (i.e. I prefer Alexander Grothendieck over Paul…

Don't take it the wrong way and don't take it personally, but herein may lie the problem: companies are rarely looking for a deep thinker, but for said problem solver and someone getting shit done. At least, that's what most software development is about. Building things that can be sold.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#54

Post by wolfgke »

sveme wrote: post #20
wolfgke wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany (where I live), the job market for software developers is not that you can arbitrarily choose for whom you want to work; you have to take the job that you can get (and I know quite some people (in Germany) who work in software development who would love to find a better job). So I personally believe that these people simply could not find a better job with less moral dilemmas.

I live in the city of FinFisher (Munich), there's a LinkedIn or Xing recruiter call coming through thrice a week. Your statement might be true in Eisenhüttenstadt, but definitely not in the city where they are located.

I hardly ever get messages from recruiters on Xing (let's say: once every two months).

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#55

Post by acollins1331 »

wolfgke wrote: post #34
adrianN wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're still looking for a C++ job in Berlin, drop me an email.

If you are talking about think-cell: about 1.5 years ago, I applied, but was rejected after the programming test (even though they liked my CV and had to admit that the C++ code that I sent in was of decent quality). Let me put it this way: I am more of a deep thinker than a fast thinker and (to put it in mathematical terms) more of a theory maker than a problem solver (i.e. I prefer Alexander Grothendieck over Paul…

Oh hey, I figured out why you can't get a job as a software developer. You didn't mention in your first post you refuse to get good at interviews.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#56

Post by wolfgke »

sveme wrote: post #53
wolfgke wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are talking about think-cell: about 1.5 years ago, I applied, but was rejected after the programming test (even though they liked my CV and had to admit that the C++ code that I sent in was of decent quality). Let me put it this way: I am more of a deep thinker than a fast thinker and (to put it in mathematical terms) more of a theory maker than a problem solver (i.e. I prefer Alexander Grothendieck over Paul…

Don't take it the wrong way and don't take it personally, but herein may lie the problem: companies are rarely looking for a deep thinker, but for said problem solver and someone getting shit done. At least, that's what most software development is about. Building things that can be sold.

That is why I wrote "(to put it in mathematical terms)": also Grothendieck and his scholars solved hard problems.

If you compare mathematical style of the mentioned Alexander Grothendieck and Paul Erdős, you will sense that they represent very different styles of doing mathematics. That is what I am referring to.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#57

Post by acollins1331 »

cyborgx7 wrote: post #41
d3v wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a Dutch company called Blendle[0] that has figured this out pretty well locally, and also has a BETA program running in the United States[1]. Articles are often much cheaper than 1-3 dollars, I don't recall paying more than 1 eur. They also combat clickbait titles and intros by providing a refund when the article turns out lousy. [0]: https://blendle.com/ [1]: https://launch.blendle.com/

Just signed up for it. It looks good, but I am seeing a bunch of clickbait. Already had to use the refund feature once. But the bigger problem is that I generally come to articles through social media or links from friends. Do I have to search for every article to see if they released it on Blendle? Also, a lot of them seem to change titles so that is actually pretty difficult.

If they had to change their title to not be clickbait for Blendle, maybe just assume it's a clickbait article

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#58

Post by wolfgke »

acollins1331 wrote: post #55
wolfgke wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are talking about think-cell: about 1.5 years ago, I applied, but was rejected after the programming test (even though they liked my CV and had to admit that the C++ code that I sent in was of decent quality). Let me put it this way: I am more of a deep thinker than a fast thinker and (to put it in mathematical terms) more of a theory maker than a problem solver (i.e. I prefer Alexander Grothendieck over Paul…

Oh hey, I figured out why you can't get a job as a software developer. You didn't mention in your first post you refuse to get good at interviews.

Solving hard algorithmic problems in a job interview is a very uncommon interview practice in Germany. In all other job interviews that I had, the programming questions were ridiculously easy. UPDATE: I actually got rejected in one job interview because I knew too much about some quite subtle details of the C++ language (claimed reason: I am not "sufficiently pragmatic" as a programmer).

But I actually did solve some really hard algorithmic questions in my doctoral thesis - they are just of a very different kind than the "algorithmic brainteasers" that seem to be common in job interviews in the Silicon Valley.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#59

Post by m-p-3 »

sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

You'd be surprised how many people out there can live without strong principles and will not lose sleep over that kind of stuff.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#60

Post by Mirioron »

coldtea wrote: post #38
lnsru wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share your opinion, job market in Germany is a tragedy today. I fully understand people writing shady software for VW group at Bosch, they have no alternatives. Kids want nice vacation, payments for the bank must be done every month. Though I am not software developer, but I get also some recruiter offers every week. I was interested in changing jobs and starting talking to these recruiters. Max offers were at €60k…

So, whether they'd work on making surveillance for totalitarian states was based on whether they'd make $60/k year or $100/k, and afford stuff "nice vacation" for the kids? Doesn't sound like a principled stance. Basically it rounds down to: they would consider a more ethical job, but it's their last priority, well behind a good salary and nice benefits... (It's understandable of course, just not principled)

Isn't that fairly rational? The difference between $100k a year and $60k a year is enormous.
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