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NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

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Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#51

Post by baumy »

sgoraya wrote: post #39
pitt1980 wrote: post #22

The Chinese government's reaction to this seems extraordinarily strong to me. The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their own population by taking it off the air? Morey is not even an especially notable NBA figure, Twitter doesn't even work in China, it would have been easy to block news of this in China. It seems like the reaction would cause a Streisand effect there. Isn't a backl…

> Morey is not even an especially notable NBA figure, Twitter doesn't even work in China, it would have been easy to block news of this in China. NBA fan, who will NOT be renewing league pass, checking in. Morey is considered one of the top NBA GM's of one of the top teams (Rockets) that have a strong Sino-centric fan base because of former Rocket great, Yao Ming. Yao was the first Chinese superstar in the NBA. The R…

Another longtime NBA fan here, just backing up what you're saying about Morey. Especially in regards to the NBA in China, he's a fairly significant figure, more so than the original comment implies.

On a different note - I was in the same boat as you and actually wrote an email to the league pass support address (did not get a reply yet) telling them that I had been a customer for years and would not be renewing this year because of the NBA's spineless capitulation to an authoritarian regime. I'm still disappointed they didn't respond correctly more quickly, Adam Silver really needed to make a strong statement over the weekend, but the statements he made earlier this week were much, much better. Unfortunate that it likely only happened because they underestimated the $$$ hit from American customers being pissed, and I'm under no illusion that anything but the bottom line is the primary concern, but I'm curious what you didn't like about Silver's most recent press conference. He pretty unequivocally said that the NBA will not infringe the free speech of its employees and gave the classic "sorry you were offended" non-apology-apology.

Part of me would have liked to see a stronger statement, but I'm also not sure it's the NBA's job to escalate an international relations issue, particularly when many of its players (including LeBron James, who has to be the most valuable asset the NBA currently has) were/are actually in China as this plays out.

I'm holding out a small bit of hope that there will be a stronger statement once no more NBA employees are in China. I have a couple of friends working in NBA front offices and a few rumors have reached their ears that the NBA is afraid to react too much for fear of retaliation in the form of players getting detained and stopped from leaving China (just to be clear, I have zero proof of this, but it seems logical).

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#52

Post by djohnston »

clairity wrote: post #19

the compare and contrast of this with the nfl and colin kaepernick is interesting. here, a general manager of a team (not a player) showed support for free speech (the protests) and democratic values over tyranny, and the league rallied (measured) support for him. many americans then criticized the nba for not going far enough, because greed. with the nfl, a player protests minority persecution by the police (an expr…

The league didn't really support the GM, and plenty of people are still pissed about Kaepernick. More importantly, the NFL hasn't gone to the same degree of virtue signaling that the NBA has.

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#53

Post by taobility »

sharadov wrote: post #47
pitt1980 wrote: post #22

The Chinese government's reaction to this seems extraordinarily strong to me. The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their own population by taking it off the air? Morey is not even an especially notable NBA figure, Twitter doesn't even work in China, it would have been easy to block news of this in China. It seems like the reaction would cause a Streisand effect there. Isn't a backl…

You think the Chinese care about "annnoying" their people. This is a totalitarian regime, which has ruthlessly run over its own people,there is no concept of individual rights, the populace is brainwashed into "nationalism" and that is all that matters. Country over self! Western thought with its ideas of human rights and free speech is alien to them.

If the game players don't respect my culture, respect my nation, why would I watch their games?!

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#54

Post by par4crsei »

vnchr wrote: post #38
par4crsei wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re talking about celebrities who are treated differently. How’s that population of effectively “disappeared” minorities into prison for pot possession and migrants in cages make it look relative to China and its behavior of kidnapping people. There are oodles of folks held in America without charges every year. Oh they got a trial here sure. One with a predetermined outcome codified into law years ago. America ha…

Sure. But that's not because of freedom of speech. And I think this is a discussion related to freedom of speech rather than the more subjective and infinitely broad, "Which is better: China or America?" I can safely criticize my country and its officials because I am not a Chinese citizen.

Try protesting Trump in front of the White House. Odds are you won’t even risk seeing how free your speech is. That’s the difference in America: most wont bother cause for most it’s fine.

A lot of Chinese as a percentage of the population can say the same.

I think fewer Americans are inclined to try and test it, more so than it being true.

Look at the pipeline situation, campus protests, etc of the last five years. Police beatings and pepper spray in the face. That’s what happens when people stand and sit around in protest.

Put together a protest on the scale of Hong Kong’s in NYC or LA. See how it goes.

TL;DR it’s more explicit in China because they actually stand up more frequently than Americans.

And as a percentage of our population we have more people in jail for minor drug possession related offenses. That’s seen as a tacit protest of government law and you’re put in the clink. Predetermined outcomes written into law plainly, we’ve all just normalized to.

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#55

Post by [deleted] »

clairity wrote: post #36
efa wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The league did not ban Kaepernick, he just wasn't signed by anyone (he wasn't a very highly rated quarterback anymore). Some say owners colluded to blacklist him. I find that very hard to believe. Owners don't seem to have a problem signing players with all types of sins in their history if it will help them win. Of course if he's going to bring trouble and he's not that great anymore, then the might pass on him.

right, i didn't mean literally banned, but he was effectively banned to make a political and economic point (also not suggesting that they necessarily did anything illegal).

[deleted]

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#56

Post by efa »

trophycase wrote: post #41
efa wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The league did not ban Kaepernick, he just wasn't signed by anyone (he wasn't a very highly rated quarterback anymore). Some say owners colluded to blacklist him. I find that very hard to believe. Owners don't seem to have a problem signing players with all types of sins in their history if it will help them win. Of course if he's going to bring trouble and he's not that great anymore, then the might pass on him.

He was blackballed. The league even settled in court with him over his grievances. Please don't muddy the waters.

Yeah, they settled (the league wasn't found guilty). The lawyer for Kaepernick said "... the parties have decided to resolve the pending grievances. The resolution of this matter is subject to a confidentiality agreement so there will be no further comment by any party." So I'm not muddying the water, the water was never clear. There was never a clear public resolution. (Again, I'm not saying they didn't do it.)

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#58

Post by taobility »

clairity wrote: post #19

the compare and contrast of this with the nfl and colin kaepernick is interesting. here, a general manager of a team (not a player) showed support for free speech (the protests) and democratic values over tyranny, and the league rallied (measured) support for him. many americans then criticized the nba for not going far enough, because greed. with the nfl, a player protests minority persecution by the police (an expr…

you are too smart to be American :)

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#59

Post by adventured »

birdyrooster wrote: post #29
pitt1980 wrote: post #22

The Chinese government's reaction to this seems extraordinarily strong to me. The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their own population by taking it off the air? Morey is not even an especially notable NBA figure, Twitter doesn't even work in China, it would have been easy to block news of this in China. It seems like the reaction would cause a Streisand effect there. Isn't a backl…

I am not particularly well versed on Sino-American politics but this seems like a provocation related to the escalating trade war with America. I get the impression from the events of recent weeks that shared commerce and culture are being divided. China seems to be taking its profits, while collecting and consolidating power it has achieved in past decades. It feels like they are getting ready to isolate themselves…

> It feels like they are getting ready to isolate themselves to a greater degree than ever.

There was a split in the road, one went to Dengville, the other went to Xiville. Xi, as a requirement of his personal pursuit of absolute power, chose to aggressively pursue the authoritarian Xiville route. Everything Xi is doing is for self-glorification and not for the benefit of China (which is why he's adjusting presented history and inserting himself everywhere in prominence; if he were actually selflessly serving China's interests, he wouldn't do any of that). Every dictator couches their words and actions in the flag of the betterment of the nation, and it ultimately never is. Before he's done, he will largely wipe out what Deng (and the leaders that followed after) accomplished in modestly liberalizing China.

As China's formerly fast, organic (low debt) growth naturally entirely ebbs away, Xi will have no choice but to begin accelerating cultural lock-down to control the restless population. That is already underway and has been for a few years. The social contract will be noticeably violated and the people will start to rebel. The CPC knows this and will try to stay out in front of it as much as possible.

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#60

Post by taobility »

vnchr wrote: post #30
clairity wrote: post #19

the compare and contrast of this with the nfl and colin kaepernick is interesting. here, a general manager of a team (not a player) showed support for free speech (the protests) and democratic values over tyranny, and the league rallied (measured) support for him. many americans then criticized the nba for not going far enough, because greed. with the nfl, a player protests minority persecution by the police (an expr…

Interesting interpretation of events. Most accounts of the NBA controversy that I've heard suggest the apology to China made by the Houston Rockets's James Harden[1] in response is what has drawn criticism. And the GM has been pressured into making an apology [2]. That was after the Houston Rockets immediately distanced themselves from the statement [3]. The criticism I've heard has been of the subservient apologies,…

Kaepernick is safe because he is a celebrity, did you read the news about some other nobody Americans?
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