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NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

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Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#31

Post by tdb7893 »

clairity wrote: post #19

the compare and contrast of this with the nfl and colin kaepernick is interesting. here, a general manager of a team (not a player) showed support for free speech (the protests) and democratic values over tyranny, and the league rallied (measured) support for him. many americans then criticized the nba for not going far enough, because greed. with the nfl, a player protests minority persecution by the police (an expr…

Yeah, I was trying to figure out a polite way to point out the discrepancy. Notably I don't think the NFL actually banned him over it, I think he just ended up not being rehired by any teams. I think the NFL actually settled a lawsuit with him over conspiring to keep him out of the league but it apparently wasn't an official policy.

Edit: so I think it wasn't as hypocritical as it could be at face value but America isn't as great about athlete protest as we really want to be. It's much harder to stomach people protesting you

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#32

Post by efa »

clairity wrote: post #19

the compare and contrast of this with the nfl and colin kaepernick is interesting. here, a general manager of a team (not a player) showed support for free speech (the protests) and democratic values over tyranny, and the league rallied (measured) support for him. many americans then criticized the nba for not going far enough, because greed. with the nfl, a player protests minority persecution by the police (an expr…

The league did not ban Kaepernick, he just wasn't signed by anyone (he wasn't a very highly rated quarterback anymore). Some say owners colluded to blacklist him. I find that very hard to believe. Owners don't seem to have a problem signing players with all types of sins in their history if it will help them win. Of course if he's going to bring trouble and he's not that great anymore, then the might pass on him.

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#33

Post by egeozcan »

dkonofalski wrote: post #10
drenvuk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, maybe I"m reading too much but having 4 or 5 articles on the front page be dedicated to China news is too much for me.

It's clearly a major topic of conversation and discussion, though.

Yes and it should be too. On the other hand if you seek content that you can only see in HN and the small amount of similar sites, and when these also get overrun with news that you can already follow on mainstream, it feels like there are no options left. Well maybe except lobste.rs.

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#34

Post by par4crsei »

vnchr wrote: post #30
clairity wrote: post #19

the compare and contrast of this with the nfl and colin kaepernick is interesting. here, a general manager of a team (not a player) showed support for free speech (the protests) and democratic values over tyranny, and the league rallied (measured) support for him. many americans then criticized the nba for not going far enough, because greed. with the nfl, a player protests minority persecution by the police (an expr…

Interesting interpretation of events. Most accounts of the NBA controversy that I've heard suggest the apology to China made by the Houston Rockets's James Harden[1] in response is what has drawn criticism. And the GM has been pressured into making an apology [2]. That was after the Houston Rockets immediately distanced themselves from the statement [3]. The criticism I've heard has been of the subservient apologies,…

You’re talking about celebrities who are treated differently.

How’s that population of effectively “disappeared” minorities into prison for pot possession and migrants in cages make it look relative to China and its behavior of kidnapping people. There are oodles of folks held in America without charges every year.

Oh they got a trial here sure. One with a predetermined outcome codified into law years ago.

America has had the advantage of being able to sell the pretense via warm and cuddly commercials to the public over the last few decades. The rhetoric in China and America is the same. And “proper Chinese” believe a lot of the same about China vs. US

All countries fail the bottom 1/3rd. Some are just better at justifying it emotionally

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#35

Post by mlyle »

efa wrote: post #32
clairity wrote: post #19

the compare and contrast of this with the nfl and colin kaepernick is interesting. here, a general manager of a team (not a player) showed support for free speech (the protests) and democratic values over tyranny, and the league rallied (measured) support for him. many americans then criticized the nba for not going far enough, because greed. with the nfl, a player protests minority persecution by the police (an expr…

The league did not ban Kaepernick, he just wasn't signed by anyone (he wasn't a very highly rated quarterback anymore). Some say owners colluded to blacklist him. I find that very hard to believe. Owners don't seem to have a problem signing players with all types of sins in their history if it will help them win. Of course if he's going to bring trouble and he's not that great anymore, then the might pass on him.

> (he wasn't a very highly rated quarterback anymore)

Though in the first 2 years Kaepernick went unsigned, about 10-15 quarterbacks weaker than him were signed. One has to assume the commercial/financial risk from fan and sponsor backlash was a significant factor.

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#36

Post by clairity »

efa wrote: post #32
clairity wrote: post #19

the compare and contrast of this with the nfl and colin kaepernick is interesting. here, a general manager of a team (not a player) showed support for free speech (the protests) and democratic values over tyranny, and the league rallied (measured) support for him. many americans then criticized the nba for not going far enough, because greed. with the nfl, a player protests minority persecution by the police (an expr…

The league did not ban Kaepernick, he just wasn't signed by anyone (he wasn't a very highly rated quarterback anymore). Some say owners colluded to blacklist him. I find that very hard to believe. Owners don't seem to have a problem signing players with all types of sins in their history if it will help them win. Of course if he's going to bring trouble and he's not that great anymore, then the might pass on him.

right, i didn't mean literally banned, but he was effectively banned to make a political and economic point (also not suggesting that they necessarily did anything illegal).

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#37

Post by tanilama »

pitt1980 wrote: post #22

The Chinese government's reaction to this seems extraordinarily strong to me. The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their own population by taking it off the air? Morey is not even an especially notable NBA figure, Twitter doesn't even work in China, it would have been easy to block news of this in China. It seems like the reaction would cause a Streisand effect there. Isn't a backl…

> The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their own population by taking it off the air?

That is a mistake. Many hyper-nationalists already called a broad ban on NBA, and so far even the fans need to claim they will give up their interests for their love of the country.

And it is probably that way already. If no further response from NBA satisfying China's official account on this matter, the ban will extend into regular season and NO ONE will question it.

It is grassroot nationalistic parade, the CCP is merely riding it, and even they need to do this carefully.

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#38

Post by vnchr »

par4crsei wrote: post #34
vnchr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting interpretation of events. Most accounts of the NBA controversy that I've heard suggest the apology to China made by the Houston Rockets's James Harden[1] in response is what has drawn criticism. And the GM has been pressured into making an apology [2]. That was after the Houston Rockets immediately distanced themselves from the statement [3]. The criticism I've heard has been of the subservient apologies,…

You’re talking about celebrities who are treated differently. How’s that population of effectively “disappeared” minorities into prison for pot possession and migrants in cages make it look relative to China and its behavior of kidnapping people. There are oodles of folks held in America without charges every year. Oh they got a trial here sure. One with a predetermined outcome codified into law years ago. America ha…

Sure. But that's not because of freedom of speech. And I think this is a discussion related to freedom of speech rather than the more subjective and infinitely broad, "Which is better: China or America?"

I can safely criticize my country and its officials because I am not a Chinese citizen.

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#39

Post by sgoraya »

pitt1980 wrote: post #22

The Chinese government's reaction to this seems extraordinarily strong to me. The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their own population by taking it off the air? Morey is not even an especially notable NBA figure, Twitter doesn't even work in China, it would have been easy to block news of this in China. It seems like the reaction would cause a Streisand effect there. Isn't a backl…

> Morey is not even an especially notable NBA figure, Twitter doesn't even work in China, it would have been easy to block news of this in China.

NBA fan, who will NOT be renewing league pass, checking in. Morey is considered one of the top NBA GM's of one of the top teams (Rockets) that have a strong Sino-centric fan base because of former Rocket great, Yao Ming. Yao was the first Chinese superstar in the NBA. The Rockets are the 'adopted' team of China.

> Isn't a backlash among the US population over this plainly foreseeable?

I agree - I'm not paying for league pass this year. I did not like the response from the NBA.

Re: NBA Events in China Disrupted over Hong Kong Tweet

#40

Post by ninth_ant »

mlyle wrote: post #35
efa wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The league did not ban Kaepernick, he just wasn't signed by anyone (he wasn't a very highly rated quarterback anymore). Some say owners colluded to blacklist him. I find that very hard to believe. Owners don't seem to have a problem signing players with all types of sins in their history if it will help them win. Of course if he's going to bring trouble and he's not that great anymore, then the might pass on him.

> (he wasn't a very highly rated quarterback anymore) Though in the first 2 years Kaepernick went unsigned, about 10-15 quarterbacks weaker than him were signed. One has to assume the commercial/financial risk from fan and sponsor backlash was a significant factor.

> One has to assume the commercial/financial risk from fan and sponsor backlash was a significant factor.

I would assume that distraction for the team — regardless of reason for that distraction — was a major contributing factor.

At a certain level their objective is to win games and focus on the player politics and non-sport activities would be disruptive, and likely negatively impact his overall value to prospective teams.

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