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The Essential Tool for Hong Kong Protesters? An Umbrella

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Re: The Essential Tool for Hong Kong Protesters? An Umbrella

#51

Post by barkxyz »

tomkwong wrote: post #48
isaaafc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole movement started with the proposal of an extradition bill by the government which allows anyone in Hong Kong deemed guilty by the Chinese government (note: HK is not China yet) to be extradited to China for trial, even foreigners. Needless to say, people protested because the Chinese judicial system is a total joke (if you don't agree with this, I'm not going to argue with you, but the whole comment would b…

> an extradition bill by the government which allows anyone in Hong Kong deemed guilty by the Chinese government (note: HK is not China yet) to be extradited to China for trial, even foreigners. AFAIK, China is just one of the countries that was included in the bill. Hong Kong has become "fugitives' paradise" because it is unable to legally send criminals to the original country for trial. > Chinese judicial system i…

Regarding police brutality, I don't think it's fair to dismiss this as "fake news". Amnesty international, for example, have investigated and found plenty of problematic behaviour by the police: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/09/hong-kong-arb...

I don't agree that protestors are trying to tear down 1c2s. The issue seems to be that they dont trust China to stick to the agreement. Obviously if China won't honour their promises on 1c2s, independence becomes the only long-term solution.

Re: The Essential Tool for Hong Kong Protesters? An Umbrella

#52

Post by secfirstmd »

Part of the inspiration for us building Umbrella: a free, open source app with advice on how activists can deal with protests, arrests, surveillance and communication. It's available in multiple languages, including Chinese. (More information at https://www.secfirst.org)

iOS: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/umbrella-security/id14537153...

Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.secfirst.u...

Re: The Essential Tool for Hong Kong Protesters? An Umbrella

#53

Post by tptacek »

secfirstmd wrote: post #52

Part of the inspiration for us building Umbrella: a free, open source app with advice on how activists can deal with protests, arrests, surveillance and communication. It's available in multiple languages, including Chinese. (More information at https://www.secfirst.org ) iOS: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/umbrella-security/id14537153... Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.secfirst.u...

See Zeynep Tufekci's Twitter thread on Rory Byrne, who you Do Not Want To Be.

https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1169323269297717248

Re: The Essential Tool for Hong Kong Protesters? An Umbrella

#54

Post by WilTimSon »

Avamander wrote: post #30
WilTimSon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but there are new options. I've seen Telegram and Briar both listed as options that the Hong Kong protesters have used. When a company sells out to the state, it's time to switch to another one. Briar, in particular, was made specifically for dissidents and protesters.

People should seriously consider Keybase with it's non-required use of a phone number and strong encryption in every chat. I'm not in any way affiliated with them but I just don't like Telegram suggested with it's unaudited homebrewn crypto and Russian roots.

The unaudited thing is definitely raising questions but, come on, let's not act like people being from a certain country should automatically discard them. Signal is made by Americans and so is Briar, I'd hope neither are thought of as NSA stooges or something. Telegram creators got essentially run out of the country and the app itself was banned in Russia, that's a pretty good sign that there's no cooperation with the government.

Not suggesting we put blind trust into it, just saying it's unfair to judge an app by where its makers come from.

Re: The Essential Tool for Hong Kong Protesters? An Umbrella

#55

Post by WilTimSon »

deepsun wrote: post #37
Avamander wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should seriously consider Keybase with it's non-required use of a phone number and strong encryption in every chat. I'm not in any way affiliated with them but I just don't like Telegram suggested with it's unaudited homebrewn crypto and Russian roots.

Crypto that's not "on" by default.

Their encryption is on by default, just not the end-to-end kind. I know that's pedantic but it's true.

Re: The Essential Tool for Hong Kong Protesters? An Umbrella

#56

Post by Avamander »

WilTimSon wrote: post #54
Avamander wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should seriously consider Keybase with it's non-required use of a phone number and strong encryption in every chat. I'm not in any way affiliated with them but I just don't like Telegram suggested with it's unaudited homebrewn crypto and Russian roots.

The unaudited thing is definitely raising questions but, come on, let's not act like people being from a certain country should automatically discard them. Signal is made by Americans and so is Briar, I'd hope neither are thought of as NSA stooges or something. Telegram creators got essentially run out of the country and the app itself was banned in Russia, that's a pretty good sign that there's no cooperation with t…

It's definitely not a single thing (e.g. origin) I find untrustworthy, it's the things combined (homemade crypto + Russian origin).

Re: The Essential Tool for Hong Kong Protesters? An Umbrella

#57

Post by Avamander »

WilTimSon wrote: post #55
deepsun wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto that's not "on" by default.

Their encryption is on by default, just not the end-to-end kind. I know that's pedantic but it's true.

By that logic you could call FB Messenger encrypted and IRC, but that's not really the encryption we're talking about.

Re: The Essential Tool for Hong Kong Protesters? An Umbrella

#59

Post by isaaafc »

tomkwong wrote: post #48
isaaafc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole movement started with the proposal of an extradition bill by the government which allows anyone in Hong Kong deemed guilty by the Chinese government (note: HK is not China yet) to be extradited to China for trial, even foreigners. Needless to say, people protested because the Chinese judicial system is a total joke (if you don't agree with this, I'm not going to argue with you, but the whole comment would b…

> an extradition bill by the government which allows anyone in Hong Kong deemed guilty by the Chinese government (note: HK is not China yet) to be extradited to China for trial, even foreigners. AFAIK, China is just one of the countries that was included in the bill. Hong Kong has become "fugitives' paradise" because it is unable to legally send criminals to the original country for trial. > Chinese judicial system i…

Interesting. Your view, except for that towards Chinese judicial system, aligns perfectly with Carrie Lam. Literally everything she said about the movement is found here.

I'm providing views from the movement's supporters' side, and it's nice to have the ruler's side for others' reference as well.

Re: The Essential Tool for Hong Kong Protesters? An Umbrella

#60

Post by WilTimSon »

Avamander wrote: post #57
WilTimSon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their encryption is on by default, just not the end-to-end kind. I know that's pedantic but it's true.

By that logic you could call FB Messenger encrypted and IRC, but that's not really the encryption we're talking about.

Except we all know that FB harvests every ounce of data they can get, of course we disregard their encryption. But Telegram hasn't been caught doing that and I haven't seen any reports of their regular encryption being broken. Not exactly a fair comparison.
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