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Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

theguardian.com

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Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#51

Post by leetcrew »

Angostura wrote: post #32
otikik wrote: post #18

When there's no dedicated line, just use the sidewalk. I go really slow near pedestrians / densely populated areas, and I try to minimize danger (think a child getting out of a building suddenly). Before it gets inconvenient or dangerous, I dismount. I know this can mean a fine, and I am aware that this can put some pedestrians at risk of bruising (again, I am careful, respectful and slow when I go on the sidewalk).…

No. Don't. You may "try to minimise danger", but one day you will hit someone and injure them. You also make it difficult for nervous or timid pedestrians. I absolutely will walk in your way and give you a mouthful.

if a bike hits you at a typical walking speed, how much worse is it than just bumping into another pedestrian?

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#52

Post by jessaustin »

leetcrew wrote: post #50
jessaustin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bus routes that weave in and out of bike lanes Have you really found this to be a problem? Everywhere I've lived and cycled, buses are the most predictable vehicles on the road. When they approach from behind, they leave plenty of space. They rarely go very fast. They stop often enough that you'd never get stuck behind them. Unlike a lot of other "professionally driven" vehicles, they know where they're going and don…

> Everywhere I've lived and cycled, buses are the most predictable vehicles on the road. living in a midsize US east coast city, this does not match my experience at all. city bus drivers have the same mentality as truck drivers on the interstate: I'm bigger than you so you better get out of my way. it's a common occurrence to see a city bus pull all the way over to the right for a stop, then cut across four lanes of…

That sounds like a complaint to address to whomever designed that bus route, not to the drivers on the route? I'm sure the drivers don't enjoy that maneuver. (and sure, sometimes that's going to be unavoidable for any particular route...) Frankly, you sound a bit like an automobile driver, complaining about interstates and cutting across four lanes. On a bicycle it's easy to observe, plan ahead, and avoid the maneuver you've mentioned. For one thing, it always occurs in the same place! Also, it's great to be cycling behind a big vehicle as it vacates a lane: you've got first dibs on the free space.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#53

Post by dsfyu404ed »

choeger wrote: post #19
alrs wrote: post #9

Bike lanes exist to get bicycles "out of the way," which is why we have a decades-long alliance between the car-insurance lobby and the sell-bicycles lobby to get bikes off the road and on to facilities. This is a losing strategy for people who actually ride bikes, the correct one is to lower speed limits.

> This is a losing strategy for people who actually ride bikes, the correct one is to lower speed limits. I do not think that this is going to cut it. On a good day I easily do 30kph on a good road (that's why I prefer the painted lanes, btw., they tend to give you access to paved roads). With wind, or exhaustion, or any number of reasons, that speed can drop downwards to 20kph. Now I am definitely not the most well-…

>So what speed limit would you actually pick?

No posted limit. What is safe and reasonable it is left to the road user's discretion. If you want people to slow then clog up the road with all sort of "traffic calming" measures.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#54

Post by dsfyu404ed »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #41

If not about painted or not-painted. It's about is the bike lane 4m wide or 1m. Painting 1m wide bike lanes is just because cities don't want to take away from cars. Painting 1m wide bike lanes is trying to eat the cake and have it. There is no free lunch. In Berlin most bike lanes are very narrow [1] while in Copenhagen most bike lanes are wide enough to feel safe and have two bikes next to each other. No one cares…

I can think of several states in which bike lanes are basically nonexistent that are better for cycling than my state which goes somewhat out of its way to put in bike lanes simply because the former require an approximately lane-wide shoulder on all but the smallest roads and it is the de-facto bike lane when bikes are present.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#55

Post by Angostura »

wayoutthere wrote: post #42
Angostura wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Don't. You may "try to minimise danger", but one day you will hit someone and injure them. You also make it difficult for nervous or timid pedestrians. I absolutely will walk in your way and give you a mouthful.

Sorry, but no amount of verbal chewing out is going to change behavior on this one. It’s far safer for me on the sidewalk — and it’s far more likely both people walk away from an accident with a pedestrian than a vehicle. Edit: also, where I live (northeastern US) the roads have craters like Beirut in the 80s. Cars have problems on them, so cyclists ride on the sidewalk rather than swerve all over the road to find a…

> It’s far safer for me on the sidewalk

Absolutely. Should probably drive your car on it for that reason.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#56

Post by Angostura »

wayoutthere wrote: post #46
mruts wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most places riding on sidewalks is illegal. I always get pissed when I see bikes hogging my sidewalk and almost hitting me.

Yup, it’s illegal. So is driving / parking in the bike lane, but the cops in my city enforce neither. Doesn’t change a thing — I refuse not to be selfish when it comes to protecting my life.

> I refuse not to be selfish when it comes to...

... endangering pedestrians.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#57

Post by Grue3 »

mruts wrote: post #44
otikik wrote: post #18

When there's no dedicated line, just use the sidewalk. I go really slow near pedestrians / densely populated areas, and I try to minimize danger (think a child getting out of a building suddenly). Before it gets inconvenient or dangerous, I dismount. I know this can mean a fine, and I am aware that this can put some pedestrians at risk of bruising (again, I am careful, respectful and slow when I go on the sidewalk).…

Biycling on the sidewalk is illegal in most places. And for good reason. In cities the differential between the speed of bikes and cars is smaller than between bikes and pedestrians.

>In cities the differential between the speed of bikes and cars is smaller than between bikes and pedestrians.

I find that hard to believe. A bike can easily move at a walking speed among the pedestrians, while a car would never drive at a bike speed unless forced to.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#58

Post by otikik »

Angostura wrote: post #32
otikik wrote: post #18

When there's no dedicated line, just use the sidewalk. I go really slow near pedestrians / densely populated areas, and I try to minimize danger (think a child getting out of a building suddenly). Before it gets inconvenient or dangerous, I dismount. I know this can mean a fine, and I am aware that this can put some pedestrians at risk of bruising (again, I am careful, respectful and slow when I go on the sidewalk).…

No. Don't. You may "try to minimise danger", but one day you will hit someone and injure them. You also make it difficult for nervous or timid pedestrians. I absolutely will walk in your way and give you a mouthful.

Ok. I still prefer that to being driven over by a car honestly.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#59

Post by otikik »

mruts wrote: post #44
otikik wrote: post #18

When there's no dedicated line, just use the sidewalk. I go really slow near pedestrians / densely populated areas, and I try to minimize danger (think a child getting out of a building suddenly). Before it gets inconvenient or dangerous, I dismount. I know this can mean a fine, and I am aware that this can put some pedestrians at risk of bruising (again, I am careful, respectful and slow when I go on the sidewalk).…

Biycling on the sidewalk is illegal in most places. And for good reason. In cities the differential between the speed of bikes and cars is smaller than between bikes and pedestrians.

Yep. So I might get a fine in the future. Maybe.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#60

Post by robertony »

lucideer wrote: post #20
prennert wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a political level, I think a lot is lost already - at least in London. I am seeing daily both "fundamentalist" behavior from both cyclists and motorists (rarely from pedestrians interestingly). I am catching myself sometimes not paying attention at zebras and junctions to pedestrians who did behave predictively. This usually happens because I am busy watching back and forth watching out for a speeding car (or a dr…

Having cycled briefly in a few cities in the Netherlands (Amsterdam, Utrecht, Hague), and also in Copenhagen, I found the former cities excellent and the latter stressful. Copenhagen tends strongly towards segregated lanes: you have to be extremely familiar with the city layout to be able to pre-empt where to enter & exit, and local cyclists come across quite aggressive if you're not constantly perfectly aware of whe…

If I compare cyclists in London (and, there are a lot) to pretty much anywhere in the Netherlands. In the Netherlands, the cyclists are far better behaved.

I don't have to worry for my life walking on a pavement that in the next moment a cyclist may decide to go on the pavement because there is a red light on the road at full speed, or almost knock me over, going across a zebra crossing when the light is green for pedestrians. Cyclists in London seem to think they can go regardless and no rule applies to them.

It wouldn't be too surprising in such a circumstance that they don't particularly feel safer with bike lanes.

I don't think this is a numbers issue.

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