Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer • Hacker News Board

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#41

Post by _Codemonkeyism » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 12:59 PM UTC

If not about painted or not-painted. It's about is the bike lane 4m wide or 1m.

Painting 1m wide bike lanes is just because cities don't want to take away from cars.

Painting 1m wide bike lanes is trying to eat the cake and have it. There is no free lunch.

In Berlin most bike lanes are very narrow [1] while in Copenhagen most bike lanes are wide enough to feel safe and have two bikes next to each other. No one cares about paint.

[1] ... and winding, and blocked all the time by delivery trucks, parking cars and construction sites, and taking 90 degree turns around obstacles, and full of overgrown bushes ...

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#42

Post by wayoutthere » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 1:04 PM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #32

otikik wrote: post #18

When there's no dedicated line, just use the sidewalk. I go really slow near pedestrians / densely populated areas, and I try to minimize danger (think a child getting out of a building suddenly). Before it gets inconvenient or dangerous, I dismount. I know this can mean a fine, and I am aware that this can put some pedestrians at risk of bruising (again, I am careful, respectful and slow when I go on the sidewalk).…

No. Don't. You may "try to minimise danger", but one day you will hit someone and injure them. You also make it difficult for nervous or timid pedestrians. I absolutely will walk in your way and give you a mouthful.

Sorry, but no amount of verbal chewing out is going to change behavior on this one. It’s far safer for me on the sidewalk — and it’s far more likely both people walk away from an accident with a pedestrian than a vehicle.

Edit: also, where I live (northeastern US) the roads have craters like Beirut in the 80s. Cars have problems on them, so cyclists ride on the sidewalk rather than swerve all over the road to find a path that won’t shred your rims / tires.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#43

Post by mruts » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 1:07 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #34

prennert wrote: post #10

Painted bicycle lanes are actually dangerous in my opinion. I cycle almost every day in London for now about 6 years. I avoid streets with painted cycle paths if I can (and take parallel side roads instead). The way I see it, painted cycle lanes makes cyclists feel secure, but does not create much awareness by motorists. They are mainly used on roads with a lot of traffic. Because they are painted they have sometimes…

> What TfL needs is having their planners cycle to work This. Like the stories of having ancient bridge designers stand under their bridges, the people designing cycling facilities should be made to use them in order to improve their safety and usability. I think for a lot of planners having a week where they are given a cycle orienteering challenge around a set of random points in a city would be a huge benefit. Giv…

Btw, what you are referring to is the Hammurabi Code. Engraved in Babylonian by the Mesopotamians.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#44

Post by mruts » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 1:12 PM UTC

otikik wrote: post #18

When there's no dedicated line, just use the sidewalk. I go really slow near pedestrians / densely populated areas, and I try to minimize danger (think a child getting out of a building suddenly). Before it gets inconvenient or dangerous, I dismount. I know this can mean a fine, and I am aware that this can put some pedestrians at risk of bruising (again, I am careful, respectful and slow when I go on the sidewalk).…

Biycling on the sidewalk is illegal in most places. And for good reason. In cities the differential between the speed of bikes and cars is smaller than between bikes and pedestrians.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#45

Post by mruts » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

wayoutthere wrote: post #42

Angostura wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Don't. You may "try to minimise danger", but one day you will hit someone and injure them. You also make it difficult for nervous or timid pedestrians. I absolutely will walk in your way and give you a mouthful.

Sorry, but no amount of verbal chewing out is going to change behavior on this one. It’s far safer for me on the sidewalk — and it’s far more likely both people walk away from an accident with a pedestrian than a vehicle. Edit: also, where I live (northeastern US) the roads have craters like Beirut in the 80s. Cars have problems on them, so cyclists ride on the sidewalk rather than swerve all over the road to find a…

In most places riding on sidewalks is illegal. I always get pissed when I see bikes hogging my sidewalk and almost hitting me.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#46

Post by wayoutthere » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

mruts wrote: post #45

wayoutthere wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but no amount of verbal chewing out is going to change behavior on this one. It’s far safer for me on the sidewalk — and it’s far more likely both people walk away from an accident with a pedestrian than a vehicle. Edit: also, where I live (northeastern US) the roads have craters like Beirut in the 80s. Cars have problems on them, so cyclists ride on the sidewalk rather than swerve all over the road to find a…

In most places riding on sidewalks is illegal. I always get pissed when I see bikes hogging my sidewalk and almost hitting me.

Yup, it’s illegal. So is driving / parking in the bike lane, but the cops in my city enforce neither. Doesn’t change a thing — I refuse not to be selfish when it comes to protecting my life.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#47

Post by jessaustin » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

protonimitate wrote: post #30

bryanlarsen wrote: post #24

Are segregated lanes any better? It seems to me that the vast bulk of the danger for cyclists is at intersections (the dreaded right hook, mostly). A segregated lane can make it harder for a car to see you and prevents you from taking the lane to make yourself obvious. What we need are protected intersections; the rest of the road can be painted or segregated, I don't really care. https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/four…

Intersections are dangerous for sure, but I think it mostly depends on the city and driving culture each has. One thing that segregated lanes help immensely with is double-parking in painted bike lanes, and bus routes that weave in and out of bike lanes to make their stops. Ideally we'd have both segregated lanes and protected intersections.

bus routes that weave in and out of bike lanes

Have you really found this to be a problem? Everywhere I've lived and cycled, buses are the most predictable vehicles on the road. When they approach from behind, they leave plenty of space. They rarely go very fast. They stop often enough that you'd never get stuck behind them. Unlike a lot of other "professionally driven" vehicles, they know where they're going and don't make last-second turns. They signal their turns. Any cyclist unaware enough to be endangered by a city bus is also threatened by every other vehicle on the street.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#48

Post by jessaustin » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 1:29 PM UTC

human20190310 wrote: post #40

Angostura wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Don't. You may "try to minimise danger", but one day you will hit someone and injure them. You also make it difficult for nervous or timid pedestrians. I absolutely will walk in your way and give you a mouthful.

Much of the suburban US has busy roads with zero accommodation for bicycles and sidewalks with no people on them for half a mile (~1km) in each direction.

If that's the case, it will be easy to hop back on the road when you see a pedestrian. Only hillbillies bike on the sidewalk when pedestrians are present.

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#49

Post by jessaustin » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

C1sc0cat wrote: post #33

byteofbits wrote: post #7

As someone who has recently started to use cycle lanes to move around London I disagree with the view expressed in the article. Many of the cycle lanes I use everyday in West / Central London are only painted. I personally feel much safer in a cycle lane, even if only a painted one, simply because I don't have to worry as much about getting side-swiped by a bus. Seeing the end of a painted cycle lane is a good indica…

As some one who used to cycle a lot in London - the problem is the use of the reserved space at stop lines for cyclists as it teaches cyclist to aggressively undertake cars to get to the front. An before you down vote me - undertaking and getting hit causes 90% (aprox) of the fatal casualties in London.

Could you define that term? All I'm getting are "a formal pledge or promise" and "the occupation of an undertaker".

Re: Cycling commissioners say painted bike lanes don’t make cyclists feel safer

#50

Post by leetcrew » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 1:35 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #47

protonimitate wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intersections are dangerous for sure, but I think it mostly depends on the city and driving culture each has. One thing that segregated lanes help immensely with is double-parking in painted bike lanes, and bus routes that weave in and out of bike lanes to make their stops. Ideally we'd have both segregated lanes and protected intersections.

bus routes that weave in and out of bike lanes Have you really found this to be a problem? Everywhere I've lived and cycled, buses are the most predictable vehicles on the road. When they approach from behind, they leave plenty of space. They rarely go very fast. They stop often enough that you'd never get stuck behind them. Unlike a lot of other "professionally driven" vehicles, they know where they're going and don…

> Everywhere I've lived and cycled, buses are the most predictable vehicles on the road.

living in a midsize US east coast city, this does not match my experience at all. city bus drivers have the same mentality as truck drivers on the interstate: I'm bigger than you so you better get out of my way. it's a common occurrence to see a city bus pull all the way over to the right for a stop, then cut across four lanes of traffic to turn left at the next light.