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The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bring it back

nature.com

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Re: The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bring it back

#51

Post by x220 »

amibang wrote: post #47
x220 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The way in which public considers science today is much more analogous to the way the public considered religion during the time of Galileo. I wish. In the US a huge number of people (large enough to be dangerous) reject climate change consensus, think that evolution shouldn't be taught in schools, are "skeptical" about vaccinating their children (I use quotes because skepticism implies reasonableness), think that t…

How is the common man supposed to know that there isn't anything strange in the vaccine? Governments have forcibly sterilised segments of their population before.

Ask your doctor about it instead of listening to a Facebook group.

Re: The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bring it back

#52

Post by JamesBarney »

x220 wrote: post #35
cossray wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't get this. When did spanking your child amount to 'physical violence'? We became too liberal with even the basics.

If you can hit your kid, why can't I also hit my dog?

People use shock collars(physical pain as punishment) on their dog all the time and there are large dog training companies built around this modality.

Re: The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bring it back

#53

Post by unknownkadath »

phd514 wrote: post #22

The opening paragraphs of this article are just another example of what appears to be an ongoing attempt to manufacture conflict between "religion" and "science". The books that were burned at Ephesus were explicitly identified in Acts 19:19 as sorcery books, not "books of nature". Stuff like this gets published in Nature and people wonder why "science" is losing its credibility?

Oh, well, as long as it was sorcery. Burning those books is a completely normal thing for completely normal people to do.

Re: The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bring it back

#54

Post by madspindel »

cameronh90 wrote: post #16
charliesharding wrote: post #5

The way in which public considers science today is much more analogous to the way the public considered religion during the time of Galileo. Think of the way people are castigated for not believing in scientific "truths". I see signs in peoples yard saying that "in this house, we believe science is real". As someone who has studied biochemistry for years, this kind of reverence for science is truly troubling. The one…

People may confuse believing in the scientific method for believing in the current scientific consensus, which as you point out is fluid. However, for the average person, a dogmatic belief in the scientific method would be a huge step up over religion.

"The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Written by Albert Einstein

Re: The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bring it back

#55

Post by x220 »

JamesBarney wrote: post #52
x220 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can hit your kid, why can't I also hit my dog?

People use shock collars(physical pain as punishment) on their dog all the time and there are large dog training companies built around this modality.

There are also a lot of people who hit their dogs. Is this ok?

Re: The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bring it back

#56

Post by talkingtab »

Two recent events relevant to scientific authority: the past recommendation of a nutritional pyramid that contributed to a generation of obesity and the anti-vaxxer movement that has resulted in a measles outbreak. Neither of these are black and white scenarios. Perhaps the nutritional pyramid had some positive effects. And perhaps not getting vaccinated has resulted in the savings of thousands of lives. Scientific authority rests not on being right, but on reasoned disclosure of evidence.

We have "scientific studies" being paid for by companies with a vested interest in the results. (Disclosure, I am writing this on an iMac with my iPhone sitting next to me). Today you can read how the Apple iWatch will detect AFIB. It is a study paid for by Apple, published by Stanford Medicine. From med.stanford.edu "The results of the Apple Heart Study highlight the potential role that innovative digital technology can play in creating more predictive and preventive health care". And who can argue with the truth of that?

But certainly the study is presented with the expectation of encouraging people to buy Apple products. Neither the Apple site nor the Stanford site make it clear that false positives for AFIB can result in unnecessary medical procedures along with their financial costs and health risks.

I'm not singling out of Apple or Stanford - I have great respect for both of them - but I have less trust in them than I did yesterday. There are far worse instances: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074....

Bringing back scientific authority requires earning trust.

Re: The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bring it back

#57

Post by war1025 »

lmm wrote: post #27
war1025 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge difference between swatting someone to get their attention and hitting someone with enough force to cause injury.

If it's meant as a punishment it's not "to get their attention"; it's done to inflict pain. Again, it wouldn't be acceptable with an adult; just apply the same standard.

Children are driven mainly by emotion. Particularly young children. Pain is an emotion that tends to override other emotions. A brief, sharp pain can snap them out of an emotional loop they found themselves caught in. Since the pain is very brief, they tend to revert back to a much more reasonable state afterwards.

All that said, yes there is a difference between parenting and abuse. However, children are not tiny adults. They are tiny humans. You can often tell how they are feeling or why they are feeling that way, but it isn't by thinking the way a well-adjusted adult would. The whole point of parenting is to help them get to that point eventually.

Re: The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bring it back

#58

Post by unknownkadath »

x220 wrote: post #30
charliesharding wrote: post #5

The way in which public considers science today is much more analogous to the way the public considered religion during the time of Galileo. Think of the way people are castigated for not believing in scientific "truths". I see signs in peoples yard saying that "in this house, we believe science is real". As someone who has studied biochemistry for years, this kind of reverence for science is truly troubling. The one…

>The way in which public considers science today is much more analogous to the way the public considered religion during the time of Galileo. I wish. In the US a huge number of people (large enough to be dangerous) reject climate change consensus, think that evolution shouldn't be taught in schools, are "skeptical" about vaccinating their children (I use quotes because skepticism implies reasonableness), think that t…

You are right, and this thread is depressing.

Re: The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bring it back

#59

Post by x220 »

gus_massa wrote: post #45
x220 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The way in which public considers science today is much more analogous to the way the public considered religion during the time of Galileo. I wish. In the US a huge number of people (large enough to be dangerous) reject climate change consensus, think that evolution shouldn't be taught in schools, are "skeptical" about vaccinating their children (I use quotes because skepticism implies reasonableness), think that t…

> or think that abstinence-only sex education is effective. How did we prove that it doesn't work? I agree that it doesn't work, but I have a very hard time imagining how to make a study to prove it.

I also don't know what the evidence suggests specifically, which is why I'd have to do a survey of the academic literature or ask about the consensus.

Re: The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bring it back

#60

Post by rudigergerm »

x220 wrote: post #51
amibang wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the common man supposed to know that there isn't anything strange in the vaccine? Governments have forcibly sterilised segments of their population before.

Ask your doctor about it instead of listening to a Facebook group.

How do we know doctors aren't being paid speaking fees and payouts by pharma companies? It has happened before I guess with Opioids.
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