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Matrix at FOSDEM 2019

matrix.org

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Re: Matrix at FOSDEM 2019

#51

Post by cjmoran »

bravura wrote: post #42

Okay, so this project sounds exciting. But it's really hard to figure out what is currently possible and how to get started. (I find this ironic for a project that is focused on improving communication.) Here is where I am after jumping around the docs for 15 minutes. Can someone with more Matrix experience help? So as of right now: * Can I have one app on my iOS device that allows me to seamlessly message people on…

The other comments already gave you some great info, but I'll just link some good documentation for anyone looking to get started. I discovered Matrix the other day and decided to set up a toy matrix-synapse server, which took less than two days' worth of free time for someone with a programming background and no serious IT expertise.

Build matrix-synapse server from source: https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse

Install matrix-synapse server on a DO droplet (the smallest/cheapest droplet or excess resources on an existing one should be plenty): https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-inst...

I hope this project gets more traction because it's a fantastic, secure, self-hosted, full-featured, (inhales), open-source version of slack/telegram/kind of discord. Not perfect yet, but really great so far. Even pretty easy to set up e2e-encrypted voice and video calling through your server.

Re: Matrix at FOSDEM 2019

#52

Post by kuschku »

dcbadacd wrote: post #36
mikenew wrote: post #35

I have a Matrix homeserver running on an Odroid XU4 that sits under my TV. I also have bridge servers running for iMessage, Slack, and Hangouts (which includes Google Voice) that connect those services into Matrix. Being able to see and respond to all my messages from all those services while I'm ssh'd into a weechat client is surreal and amazing. Going back to tapping out messages on my phone in iMessage or opening…

I have made a similar setup with IRC. I have set up bitlbee with Facebook, Telegram, Hangouts and Steam plugins, bitlbee is connected to quassel-core and I use native Quassel clients on all my platforms to connect to the core (trough VPN if needed). The only rough edge I have with this setup is that I lose video playback in client compared to say Messenger or TG. Maybe one day...

Video playback for quasseldroid is actually something I'm working on right now :)

Re: Matrix at FOSDEM 2019

#53

Post by yoz-y »

shakna wrote: post #49
jancsika wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going back to tapping out messages on my phone in iMessage ...turns you back into a first class iMessage citizen. Meaning better security, more features, and a special color for the messages to signal all that to your recipients with an iphone.

> Meaning better security, more features If I'm understanding you correctly, are you suggesting that iMessages has a superior security protocol than Matrix?

iMessage + Matrix definitely has a larger attack surface than just iMessage

Re: Matrix at FOSDEM 2019

#54

Post by Y_Y »

mikenew wrote: post #39
dcbadacd wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have made a similar setup with IRC. I have set up bitlbee with Facebook, Telegram, Hangouts and Steam plugins, bitlbee is connected to quassel-core and I use native Quassel clients on all my platforms to connect to the core (trough VPN if needed). The only rough edge I have with this setup is that I lose video playback in client compared to say Messenger or TG. Maybe one day...

How well does the Steam integration work? I haven't tried setting up a bridge yet, but even on the web client I constantly get logged out.

Ironically the native client constantly logs me in, even when I don't want to. I've never wanted to be Online or Available, but ever since they shipped the new "Friends" thing it's made quite difficult.

Re: Matrix at FOSDEM 2019

#55

Post by Arathorn »

tptacek wrote: post #40
dane-pgp wrote: post #25

While I'm very excited about the prospects for Matrix in 2019, the reality of client choice for end-to-end encrypted Matrix chat is currently disappointing compared to the potential it has. Someone on reddit gathered some data [1] about E2EE support a few months ago, and Debian maintain a wiki page [2] about their progress packaging Matrix-implementing applications. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/9avye…

I bear no ill-will towards the Matrix project, but this fact pattern (I knew about it in the abstract but hadn't seen it laid out like this) makes me actually angry about the people who have recommended Matrix as a replacement for the Signal Protocol messengers like Signal, WhatsApp, and Wire. Telling people to switch to Matrix from those is simply malpractice.

tptacek: the reddit article there is a bit flawed (as uhoreg tries to gently point out in the response). the reality is that we provide decent E2EE stacks on web, iOS and Android which get used in the flagship client (Riot) that most people use. These are pretty solid and getting better, as per the SAS verif and cross-signing work. Other clients like Seaglass which build on the same SDKs obviously get the same experience. I would argue that these provide a decent decentralised alternative to Signal, WA or Wire, especially if you run your own server (given we don’t do log minimisation on matrix.org).

Now, there’s a long tail of other random clients which don’t do E2EE, which is inevitable given doing a good secure job of an independent E2EE implementation is obviously tough. But is that actually a problem, given the most usable mainstream clients do have it?

It’s a bit like declaring that the Web is in a disastrous sad state because of the number of HTTP clients out there which don’t have a CSS engine in them...

Re: Matrix at FOSDEM 2019

#56

Post by majewsky »

cjmoran wrote: post #51
bravura wrote: post #42

Okay, so this project sounds exciting. But it's really hard to figure out what is currently possible and how to get started. (I find this ironic for a project that is focused on improving communication.) Here is where I am after jumping around the docs for 15 minutes. Can someone with more Matrix experience help? So as of right now: * Can I have one app on my iOS device that allows me to seamlessly message people on…

The other comments already gave you some great info, but I'll just link some good documentation for anyone looking to get started. I discovered Matrix the other day and decided to set up a toy matrix-synapse server, which took less than two days' worth of free time for someone with a programming background and no serious IT expertise. Build matrix-synapse server from source: https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse Inst…

> Build matrix-synapse server from source: https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse

Or use a distro that has a binary package, e.g. https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/any/matrix-syna...

Re: Matrix at FOSDEM 2019

#57

Post by feanaro »

balladeer wrote: post #26
Arathorn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix is an open standard protocol ( https://matrix.org/docs/spec ) and an open network like the Web, but for realtime comms. Anyone can spin up a server and start participating in the network, and in Matrix the conversations are replicated over all the servers whose users participate in that conversation, so there is no single point of failure or control: the conversations are owned by the users. All the implementa…

Any plans to focus on Riot as a, let's say, WhatsApp/Signal alternative too from what it actually seems as of now which is just being Slack/IRC alternative? And with that any chances an easier way of having an ID/username? @ :matrix.org seems extremely easy and convenient for me but may not be the same for my friends and family without whom any messaging platform is useless. PS. Totally rooting for you guys! I wish S…

> And with that any chances an easier way of having an ID/username? @:matrix.org seems extremely easy and convenient for me but may not be the same for my friends and family without whom any messaging platform is useless.

Matrix emphasizes the use of third-party IDs (3PIDs) via dedicated identity servers. The idea is to link your Matrix ID (@user:server) to other identifiers like your email or phone number. Then you can use those to log in and other users can find you using them too.

Re: Matrix at FOSDEM 2019

#58

Post by muvek »

Arathorn wrote: post #55
tptacek wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bear no ill-will towards the Matrix project, but this fact pattern (I knew about it in the abstract but hadn't seen it laid out like this) makes me actually angry about the people who have recommended Matrix as a replacement for the Signal Protocol messengers like Signal, WhatsApp, and Wire. Telling people to switch to Matrix from those is simply malpractice.

tptacek: the reddit article there is a bit flawed (as uhoreg tries to gently point out in the response). the reality is that we provide decent E2EE stacks on web, iOS and Android which get used in the flagship client (Riot) that most people use. These are pretty solid and getting better, as per the SAS verif and cross-signing work. Other clients like Seaglass which build on the same SDKs obviously get the same experi…

Those other "random clients" (as you call them) exist because your desktop client is bad. And I am being nice by just calling it "bad", it is the least performant client I have ever come across, even counting other electron-based software.

Re: Matrix at FOSDEM 2019

#59

Post by babysasquatch »

acct1771 wrote: post #47
tptacek wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bear no ill-will towards the Matrix project, but this fact pattern (I knew about it in the abstract but hadn't seen it laid out like this) makes me actually angry about the people who have recommended Matrix as a replacement for the Signal Protocol messengers like Signal, WhatsApp, and Wire. Telling people to switch to Matrix from those is simply malpractice.

Trust > features & polish.

said 0.001% of internet users (read techies)

Re: Matrix at FOSDEM 2019

#60

Post by runyor »

JHSheridan wrote: post #50

I found Matrix and Riot a while back while I was searching for an encrypted, open-source alternative to Rocket Chat for my team. While there are still some things that need improving, they're mostly just rough edges. All of my coworkers are at least semi-technical, so that makes things a little easier for us. At times, the key verification can be frustrating, but I think this is just a hard problem to solve in genera…

Did you get around if this works?

https://github.com/exul/matrix-rocketchat

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