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Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#51

Post by crispyporkbites »

jfoutz wrote: post #44
jcranmer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about ultra-high-speed is this: your benefits (travel time) grow linearly with speed, but your problems (energy, capacity, curve radii, etc.) grow quadratically. Actually, it's worse than it sounds. Travel time has a big impact on demand--but only within a small-ish window, about 2-4 hours. Outside of that window, demand does not respond that much to changes in travel time. That means that higher speeds are…

There is an eaisier question. Is it better to have more ambulances or faster ambulances. Faster wins every time. Analogy is a terrible argument. But I kinda think faster transportation beats more transportation every single time.

What do you mean? More ambulances would mean you could be nearer to the patients (imagine an ambulance on every street corner) so the net journey time would be less. You can also administer care from the ambulance (e.g. narcan, cpr, stopping bleeding etc.) which can save lives. A huge number of ambulance journeys aren't time critical either (e.g. a broken leg) but not having an ambulance means getting a taxi or other transport which exacerbates problems.

Probably better to have more ambulances overall, and maybe a few ultra fast ones (e.g. helicopters) for time critical situations.

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#52

Post by mcny »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #51
jfoutz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an eaisier question. Is it better to have more ambulances or faster ambulances. Faster wins every time. Analogy is a terrible argument. But I kinda think faster transportation beats more transportation every single time.

What do you mean? More ambulances would mean you could be nearer to the patients (imagine an ambulance on every street corner) so the net journey time would be less. You can also administer care from the ambulance (e.g. narcan, cpr, stopping bleeding etc.) which can save lives. A huge number of ambulance journeys aren't time critical either (e.g. a broken leg) but not having an ambulance means getting a taxi or other…

I think they're trying to talk about latency versus throughout. Latency matters more than throughput for an ambulance if you assume that only a small portion of the population will have a heart attack or needs emergency medical attention at any given time.

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#53

Post by mcny »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #51
jfoutz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an eaisier question. Is it better to have more ambulances or faster ambulances. Faster wins every time. Analogy is a terrible argument. But I kinda think faster transportation beats more transportation every single time.

What do you mean? More ambulances would mean you could be nearer to the patients (imagine an ambulance on every street corner) so the net journey time would be less. You can also administer care from the ambulance (e.g. narcan, cpr, stopping bleeding etc.) which can save lives. A huge number of ambulance journeys aren't time critical either (e.g. a broken leg) but not having an ambulance means getting a taxi or other…

It is obvious to me that you're correct though. Overall, the throughput matters. There are only so many people you can pack into a single F train and it won't help much if the train could go 60 mph all the way if the only scheduled trains arrived every two hours.

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#54

Post by m_mueller »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #50
snovv_crash wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they really aren't close enough together. For example, I know someone who moved from Zurich to Olten so that their girlfriend's commute to Bern would be reasonable. Now you have 2 people with 50 minute commutes instead of 1 person with 1h45 and another person with 15min. If there was a 30min connection from Bern to Zurich it would be perfectly reasonable to live in one and commute to the other.

Again, does Switzerland really want to become one big mega city? It is up for the Swiss to decide, but a huge commute draw between Bern and Zurich (or even Bern and Lausanne) would lead to something more like Japan.

Maybe that’s just me but I don’t think of Japan as a bad model in how to have a dense population that is prosperous. If anything their biggest problem currently is depopulation of remote areas.

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#55

Post by pasta »

salimmadjd wrote: post #35

Hyperloop only works most comfortably in very flat routes. It's something I never realized until I visited Hyperloop's offices in LA when they first started. I got to make some early promo photos for them [0] and signed a 10-year NDA in the process. However, what I learned (which is public knowledge) that at high speeds even smallest elevation drops would make the passengers feel the free-fall sensation of being on a…

I don't think the Swiss are going to use it in their own country.

To me the article sounds like: we think it has potential and are going to see if we can make money out of it.

Edit: it can also be very interesting to see if it is cheaper and more confortable than 'low speed' trains. Maybe in the future we use the hyperloops at 80km/h.

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#56

Post by sschueller »

salimmadjd wrote: post #35

Hyperloop only works most comfortably in very flat routes. It's something I never realized until I visited Hyperloop's offices in LA when they first started. I got to make some early promo photos for them [0] and signed a 10-year NDA in the process. However, what I learned (which is public knowledge) that at high speeds even smallest elevation drops would make the passengers feel the free-fall sensation of being on a…

Why would it be above ground? In Switzerland tunnels are a very common thing and Swissmetro was also planned to be underground. The Gotthard Base Tunnel is a almost level line through a thick mountain.

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#57

Post by k5hp »

salimmadjd wrote: post #35

Hyperloop only works most comfortably in very flat routes. It's something I never realized until I visited Hyperloop's offices in LA when they first started. I got to make some early promo photos for them [0] and signed a 10-year NDA in the process. However, what I learned (which is public knowledge) that at high speeds even smallest elevation drops would make the passengers feel the free-fall sensation of being on a…

I don't think Switzerland is going to use this system above ground. It most certainly will be deployed underground - long train tunnels are very common in Switzerland.

There was a project called Swissmetro [0] in 2005 which had a very similar concept to Hyperloop.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissmetro

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#58

Post by antpls »

salimmadjd wrote: post #35

Hyperloop only works most comfortably in very flat routes. It's something I never realized until I visited Hyperloop's offices in LA when they first started. I got to make some early promo photos for them [0] and signed a 10-year NDA in the process. However, what I learned (which is public knowledge) that at high speeds even smallest elevation drops would make the passengers feel the free-fall sensation of being on a…

Everyone is talking about transporting humans with Hyperloop, but it doesn't make sense to me.

With internet, I cant think of a case where there is a need to be urgently, physically, transported from A to B anymore. Maybe weekend leisure trip would be more enjoyable with less travel time.

What I can imagine is an Amazon Hyperloop delivering goods and products faster from delivery center to consumers across countries. No problem about human sickness if there is no human transported. Also, maybe fresh foods like vegetables and fishes would benefit from a faster travel time.

EDIT : also, maybe it sounds silly but... what about transporting gold bars very fast?

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#59

Post by tempestn »

snovv_crash wrote: post #49
salimmadjd wrote: post #35

Hyperloop only works most comfortably in very flat routes. It's something I never realized until I visited Hyperloop's offices in LA when they first started. I got to make some early promo photos for them [0] and signed a 10-year NDA in the process. However, what I learned (which is public knowledge) that at high speeds even smallest elevation drops would make the passengers feel the free-fall sensation of being on a…

That sensation is caused by vertical acceleration, ie. curvature, not by vertical speed. Controlling curvature is something that needs to be done anyway in the horizontal, I don't see why the vertical component would be harder to control for.

Because the land has vertical variations that you would have to work with, probably involving a lot of filling, bridging, and tunneling. The horizontal is just about planning the route. (Which of course has some restrictions as well, but not to the same extent.)

Re: Switzerland to test ‘hyperloop’ train technologies

#60

Post by baddox »

antpls wrote: post #58
salimmadjd wrote: post #35

Hyperloop only works most comfortably in very flat routes. It's something I never realized until I visited Hyperloop's offices in LA when they first started. I got to make some early promo photos for them [0] and signed a 10-year NDA in the process. However, what I learned (which is public knowledge) that at high speeds even smallest elevation drops would make the passengers feel the free-fall sensation of being on a…

Everyone is talking about transporting humans with Hyperloop, but it doesn't make sense to me. With internet, I cant think of a case where there is a need to be urgently, physically, transported from A to B anymore. Maybe weekend leisure trip would be more enjoyable with less travel time. What I can imagine is an Amazon Hyperloop delivering goods and products faster from delivery center to consumers across countries.…

What’s the point of transporting gold bars very quickly when we have plenty of financial instruments that can reliably represent gold bars that can be transmitted digitally?
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