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China’s Economy Slows Sharply

nytimes.com

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Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#51

Post by friedman23 »

clomond wrote: post #39
friedman23 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and shifts from inefficient state owned enterprises to companies that can operate more efficiently and are "market oriented") Do you have evidence of this? Isn't one of the biggest US complaints that many Chinese businesses are indistinguishable from the government?

I've seen it in various economics articles/readings on the topic regarding the governments long term economic strategy. (see article below I found) You are also right - yes one of the biggest complains IS that many Chinese businesses are "owned" by the government with lots of influence there. However, the big resistive force here preventing this further breakup is that they are such huge employers, and it is not poli…

I'm sure there are a few technocrats that have this as one of their goals in China but (note: this is speculation) I doubt the reason there is friction from moving away from state sponsored businesses is changing payrolls.

Communist party leaders own huge portions of their state sponsored businesses and directly benefit from their success. Chinese leaders don't want fair competition, they want to be rich.

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#52

Post by ashray5 »

contingencies wrote: post #32

These articles are coming thick and fast from three sources: The Washington Post, New York Times and Bloomberg. Nobody else (BBC, Australia, etc.) seems to be reporting the same, which leads me to believe there's a political element to this reporting, particularly amidst the current "trade war". (We don't see a rash of "US Economy Shows Sharply" every time something goes wrong for the US, although the trend is arguab…

Financial Times (UK version of Wall Street Journal) is reporting the same. Let's not build a conspiracy theory and ignore the hard evidence.

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#53

Post by crazynick4 »

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #44
contingencies wrote: post #32

These articles are coming thick and fast from three sources: The Washington Post, New York Times and Bloomberg. Nobody else (BBC, Australia, etc.) seems to be reporting the same, which leads me to believe there's a political element to this reporting, particularly amidst the current "trade war". (We don't see a rash of "US Economy Shows Sharply" every time something goes wrong for the US, although the trend is arguab…

Given your premise that American media is reporting Chinese Economic Slowdowns more widely than other country's media, there are two options: 1. Conspiracy - They are working together, and perhaps with the government and other private entities, to sow a particular narrative 2. Profit - Their audiences are particularly interested in these stories, given the e.g. aforementioned trade war I'll leave it to the reader to…

Do these necessarily have to be exclusive? The CIA is known to have made organized attempts to influence the media in the past. Virtually every government does this, it seems implausible to me that we (the US) would be the only ones with 'objective' reporting. Of course you simply have to namedrop the term 'conspiracy' to get a knee-jerk reaction and have everyone lean in the opposite direction of what is otherwise a relatively reasonable option.

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#54

Post by contingencies »

whyonearth wrote: post #40
contingencies wrote: post #32

These articles are coming thick and fast from three sources: The Washington Post, New York Times and Bloomberg. Nobody else (BBC, Australia, etc.) seems to be reporting the same, which leads me to believe there's a political element to this reporting, particularly amidst the current "trade war". (We don't see a rash of "US Economy Shows Sharply" every time something goes wrong for the US, although the trend is arguab…

Surely the markets took a hit today because the world's financial centers have all been duped by such propaganda. Look, even China-friendly South China Morning Post is in on the con, despicable. https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/2178089/c...

On the contrary, SCMP is HK based and can often be seen to publish articles openly critical of Beijing, despite mainland ownership.

(Edit: response to below: Yes, I think "formerly independent" as Wikipedia states is perhaps a good summary of SCMP's status, but I don't follow China media much. Used to read FEER a lot years ago, that was great but switched to a closed model and the best journos (some of whom I know) all left.)

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#55

Post by neolefty »

clomond wrote: post #39
friedman23 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and shifts from inefficient state owned enterprises to companies that can operate more efficiently and are "market oriented") Do you have evidence of this? Isn't one of the biggest US complaints that many Chinese businesses are indistinguishable from the government?

I've seen it in various economics articles/readings on the topic regarding the governments long term economic strategy. (see article below I found) You are also right - yes one of the biggest complains IS that many Chinese businesses are "owned" by the government with lots of influence there. However, the big resistive force here preventing this further breakup is that they are such huge employers, and it is not poli…

I love all these "You are also right" comments. One of the skills I hear about being prized in Chinese culture is the ability hold two conflicting ideas in your head at once, without feeling stressed about it.

And that skill seems to help when trying to understand China itself!

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#56

Post by contingencies »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #49
contingencies wrote: post #32

These articles are coming thick and fast from three sources: The Washington Post, New York Times and Bloomberg. Nobody else (BBC, Australia, etc.) seems to be reporting the same, which leads me to believe there's a political element to this reporting, particularly amidst the current "trade war". (We don't see a rash of "US Economy Shows Sharply" every time something goes wrong for the US, although the trend is arguab…

I’ve sometimes wondered if there is a journalistic bubble chamber.

I think this (and an 'English language media on China bubble chamber') is probably far closer to the truth than the "conspiracy" being put forward by others. Quite amused at multiple "Googled so it must be true" responses.

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#57

Post by largehotcoffee »

contingencies wrote: post #32

These articles are coming thick and fast from three sources: The Washington Post, New York Times and Bloomberg. Nobody else (BBC, Australia, etc.) seems to be reporting the same, which leads me to believe there's a political element to this reporting, particularly amidst the current "trade war". (We don't see a rash of "US Economy Shows Sharply" every time something goes wrong for the US, although the trend is arguab…

You're wrong.

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#58

Post by defertoreptar »

rrggrr wrote: post #5

I continue to believe - as I've said in prior HN comments - that the Chinese leadership welcomes this slowdown and the related trade dispute as a means to rebalance the domestic economy, while placing the blame for the rebalancing on the United States. I note that at least one distinguished China watcher agrees: https://carnegieendowment.org/2018/07/27/china-s-best-option...

Why would they want a economic slowdown?

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#59

Post by NicoJuicy »

ganzuul wrote: post #19
NicoJuicy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have my sincere doubts about this. China always had a requirement to grow 6% for every city. So I believe some numbers are inflated ( mostly about real estate eg. Ghost cities, ..). This doesn't give many issues, because there is actual growth. The reasoning goes that when the growth slows, the entire pyramid goes crumbling down ( debts). As weird as it is, I think it's an objective overview of everything China rel…

They have in practice been exporting huge sums of money overseas by buying companies all over the world.

And they have reduced this, government issued: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/18/china-moves...

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#60

Post by contingencies »

ct520 wrote: post #41
contingencies wrote: post #32

These articles are coming thick and fast from three sources: The Washington Post, New York Times and Bloomberg. Nobody else (BBC, Australia, etc.) seems to be reporting the same, which leads me to believe there's a political element to this reporting, particularly amidst the current "trade war". (We don't see a rash of "US Economy Shows Sharply" every time something goes wrong for the US, although the trend is arguab…

/me Googles "bbc china economy slows" Sees that you are wrong on first assertion. If opinionated is truthy stops reading comment. next

There has been some coverage however it seems to me to be notably less frequent. Maybe because I read too much HN so catch a lot of China articles here from US sources.

(Edit: Reply to below: Domestically there is a common acknowledgement of slowdown versus a few years ago, largely effecting real estate, high end discretionary spending such as luxury malls, and high end restaurants and nightclubs. I have not personally noticed any mass unemployment despite often visiting seasonal worker factory areas - including Dongguan pictured in the article - which would nominally be the first affected. Over the last 15 years, food retail prices have risen ~6-10x, faster than salaries (~3-7x?), but you can still get a good breakfast for under USD$1.)

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