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Don't learn Dvorak

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Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#51

Post by andrewaylett »

I switched to Dvorak, but other people tended to object when I changed the keyboard layout on shared machines, so I had to learn to type QWERTY again too. So long as what I'm typing doesn't start 'ma' or 'am' then I can usually figure things out.

It's definitely been worth it for me -- my trigger was RSI-like symptoms, which have been in remission since the switch. I would have been 23 when I switched and I'm 37 now, so I've been typing on Dvorak for the vast majority of my professional life.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#52

Post by danpalmer »

Switched to Dvorak last Christmas, over the break from work.

The bad: - I’m still not as accurate with non-Python punctuation as I was on QWERTY. - no support on iOS - people need to change my layout if typing on my machine

The good: - noticeably more comfortable typing - can be faster for some things - I have been forced to touch type as I don’t use any Dvorak printed keyboards, this has contributed to me typing faster and is generally useful. - I don’t really use other people’s computers - my thumb QWERTY typing on my phone appears to be totally different muscle memory so this hasn’t restricted my learning at all - macOS has a quick switcher for keyboard layouts which makes it very easy to change for other to use my computer.

Overall it has been very positive, and I’d recommend to anyone who is likely to type for their whole career (for prevention of RSI), and who can take a month of being unproductive at typing. The learning process was frustrating, but with 2 weeks off work over Christmas - practicing a little each day - I didn’t feel like it slowed down my programming once I was back at work. It slowed down my slack/email, but it was manageable and only temporary.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#53

Post by castis »

> The promise is that it increases your typing speed and reduces the strain on your fingers.

> The jury is still out on whether Dvorak improves typing speed.

> I cannot judge if Dvorak helps with RSI issues as I never had them from typing

why was this article post even written?

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#54

Post by peatmoss »

I mean, sorry that the author spent time on something that he wishes he hadn’t, but his anecdata conflicts with my anecdata and that of my spouse and various friends.

Learning dvorak many years ago was something I’m still glad I did. I didn’t know touch typing beforehand, and found learning dvorak relatively easy.

My spouse did know qwerty touch typing beforehand, and she also found learning dvorak relatively easy.

Some years ago I did some rough estimates of saved finger stretching based on a corpus of my own emails. I’ll never know whether I'd have typed those emails faster or slower with qwerty, but I’m absolutely convinced I did save finger strain.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#55

Post by westoque »

andrewaylett wrote: post #51

I switched to Dvorak, but other people tended to object when I changed the keyboard layout on shared machines, so I had to learn to type QWERTY again too. So long as what I'm typing doesn't start 'ma' or 'am' then I can usually figure things out. It's definitely been worth it for me -- my trigger was RSI-like symptoms, which have been in remission since the switch. I would have been 23 when I switched and I'm 37 now,…

> I switched to Dvorak, but other people tended to object when I changed the keyboard layout on shared machines

This is why I invested in an external keyboard which is hardware set to dvorak. So whatever machine I go to, I just plug-in, and be on my way.

Some suggestions:

- TypeMatrix 2020

- TypeMatrix 2030

- HHKB

I personally use an Ergodox.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#56

Post by kingnothing »

klodolph wrote: post #28

Before I switched to Dvorak, I had RSI problems. I still have RSI problems, but they are much less severe and much less frequent. The difference is stark. It makes a huge difference in quality of life for me. I have also tried alternative keyboards, like the Kinesis and the Ergodox, but switching to Dvorak seems to have had the largest impact. > Learning a new layout is one of the most frustrating experiences that I’…

What's your take on the Kinesis Advantage vs Ergodox EZ? I'm currently debating between the two.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#57

Post by howard941 »

jimmaswell wrote: post #18
thatswrong0 wrote: post #7

> Don't learn Dvorak For me, this list resonates (I use Colemak), but I would maybe call it "Things to consider before learning another keyboard layout". It's almost never a problem in my life. Someone using my computer? Switch the keyboard back to Qwerty for them. Me using someone else's? I can still do okay with Qwerty.. but I'm never using someone else's computer for longer than 10 minutes. It _was_ significantly…

Must be a YMMV because I learned touch typing just fine after knowing qwerty in an inefficient self taught way. I took a class on it for half a high school year and it paid off very well.

My experiences duplicate yours w/r/t learning QWERTY. Self taught touch typing the wrong way followed by a class during high school for the right way. Alternate layouts don't work for me since I can't take them with me to new keyboard. I learned that layouts matter back when some idiot swapped Caps lock with the Control key putting both where they are now, in the wrong place.

Split keyboards are another story entirely, comfortable, compatible with QWERTY touch typing, and the outward down tilt and separation solved my RSI issues. Definitely YMMV.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#58

Post by mfonda »

man-and-laptop wrote: post #4

On the subject of using other people's computers: How do people who use a heavily customised environment -- like Emacs with modifications (like caps-lock key for CONTROL) -- cope with this?

I have a pretty customized setup--Dvorak, caps-lock remapped to control, vim a custom vimrc and set of plugins I'm used to, etc.

It's certainly a mild annoyance when using someone else's computer, but in practice, seldom do I actually need to use someone else's computer, and even more seldom that I need to do development work on someone else's computer. It's usually helping someone out real quick, in which case it's easy enough to just deal with it. If I had to work on another machine for an extended period of time, it's easy enough to copy over my settings.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#59

Post by kevwil »

I learned to touch-type in high school, so switching to Dvorak 17 years ago only took about a month. I was on the verge of RSI problems when I switched, no RSI issues since. Dvorak saved my career. So "don't learn dvorak" falls on deaf ears over here. Good luck with your crusade, though. :)

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#60

Post by beefman »

I learned QWERTY when I was 14, in 1991. I switched to Dvorak in 2001. I could type about 100 WPM on QWERTY but suffered extinction of this skill even before I got up to speed on Dvorak (I can still hunt and peck reasonably well). After about a year I reached the same raw speed on Dvorak, but with fewer errors and less hand strain.

I don't know if I'd unilaterally recommend learning Dvorak, but it is a superior (and very near optimal) keyboard layout and I'm quite happy with my decision to switch, even though I didn't believe skill extinction was possible when I made the decision. (Practicing both concurrently may prevent QWERTY extinction, but I found it impossible to resist the urge to fall back on QWERTY without quitting it cold.)

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