Don't learn Dvorak • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#21

Post by redbeard0x0a » Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 8:32 PM UTC

jmhain wrote: post #6

I switched to Dvorak years ago and it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. It has downsides (awkwardness when typing on others' machines, difficulty typing with one hand while on the phone), but the lack of pain in my hands/wrists is worth it many times over.

Same here, I switched to Dvorak 14 years ago, I was having problems with my wrists and this change fixed most of that. I can get around a qwerty machine pretty well, typing on my phone (qwerty) seems to be fine since I don't seem to use the same muscle memory when typing on a phone (makes sense to me).

The most I had to do was to learn my password (into muscle memory) in both qwerty and dvorak (since corporate windows was qwerty until you login and then user settings take over).

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#22

Post by mikeash » Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 8:32 PM UTC

Thiez wrote: post #12

dfabulich wrote: post #3

The author complains that his QWERTY muscle memory went away when learning Dvorak. This doesn't match my experience. I can still use QWERTY, somewhat slower than before I learned Dvorak, but not much, and since I use Dvorak 99% of the time, it's no big deal.

This matches my experience. I automatically switch to QWERTY when I use someone else's computer, to the point where I get confused when I use the computer of one of my colleagues that also uses Dvorak. If you set up some shortcuts to switch between layouts then other people using your computer is not a problem either.

It takes me about a minute to switch gears, then I’m fine. I started using Dvorak full time over 20 years ago.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#23

Post by ddingus » Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 8:32 PM UTC

man-and-laptop wrote: post #4

On the subject of using other people's computers: How do people who use a heavily customised environment -- like Emacs with modifications (like caps-lock key for CONTROL) -- cope with this?

I cope by doing very little customization. Maximize the defaults first. Work that way where it makes sense.

What this has done is improve on overall flexibility.

At times, my role is one where I do end up using other people's environments.

First thing I do is get them to tell me, then work that way as much as is possible.

Some peak efficiency is left on the table, but the impact is usually minor and I can optimize somewhere else and do just fine.

Dependence on muscle memory is a double edged sword.

If one does not environment hop much, it is worth it. Where that needs to happen, exercising "stretch" to work differently can be equally worth it.

Not sure there is a free lunch here. I find state changes difficult. When it is reverted to default, or my preference, the others are not happy, and it takes time to put it all back, and sometimes more time to remember how to do those things and debug having done them.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#24

Post by jandrese » Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 8:33 PM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #5

I believe the whole statement saying that QWERTY layout is designed to slow typing down is probably a myth as I find the letters that stand right near each other in a word being neighbors on the keyboard just so often.

Maybe, but a layout that puts j and k on the right hand home row is clearly not optimized for English.

But honestly it's only an issue if you're chasing that last 5%, and IMHO not worth the time and effort. Especially if you are like me and bouncing around different keyboards all day long.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#25

Post by patsall » Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 8:33 PM UTC

I switched to Dvorak about 15 years ago. I agree with others here: I switched from being a Qwerty typist with poor form, to a "correct" Dvorak typist. In the end I'm a pretty speedy typist (~130 wpm), but I can still Qwerty well enough that it isn't painful.

However, I think the speed-up can mostly be attributed to forcing me to have a clean slate and learn to type correctly, rather than any intrinsic advantage of Dvorak. On Qwerty I typed the style I'd evolved since elementary school, and on Dvorak I touch-type like I'm meant to.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#26

Post by mh8h » Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 8:34 PM UTC

I use a keyboard that is hardwired to Dvorak. I have another normal QWERTY keyboard on my desk as well, and when somebody comes to my desk, they can use the other keyboard. Works perfectly well for pair programming too.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#27

Post by miloignis » Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 8:34 PM UTC

man-and-laptop wrote: post #4

On the subject of using other people's computers: How do people who use a heavily customised environment -- like Emacs with modifications (like caps-lock key for CONTROL) -- cope with this?

I think the same way other people on the thread can swap to QWERTY when on someone else's computer - it always takes me a minute to stop using caps as ctrl, but I get it after 3 mistakes or so. The convenience for my everyday definitely outweighs 10 seconds or so of adjustment (and after that a bit slower speed than normal) on someone else's machine rarely.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#28

Post by klodolph » Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 8:34 PM UTC

Before I switched to Dvorak, I had RSI problems. I still have RSI problems, but they are much less severe and much less frequent. The difference is stark. It makes a huge difference in quality of life for me. I have also tried alternative keyboards, like the Kinesis and the Ergodox, but switching to Dvorak seems to have had the largest impact.

> Learning a new layout is one of the most frustrating experiences that I’ve had so far.

Learning anything is frustrating. Learning Dvorak, for me, was less frustrating than learning QWERTY was in the first place.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#29

Post by lmilcin » Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 8:34 PM UTC

I have been using Dvorak for the past 20 years. The only real issues are login screens where you are surprised by the layout (windows will use dvorak when locked but not when logging in) and companies that don't allow installing my own custom driver (needed for when I type in Polish). 20 years ago I would be scoffed at if I left server console in dvorak but I haven't used any server physically (not remotely) in over a decade.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#30

Post by redbeard0x0a » Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 8:34 PM UTC

kzahel wrote: post #13

Dvorak is worth it just for the look on people's faces when they try to use a computer you've been using.

Hard to "hack" your machine by typing things when you step away for a minute. Also makes it harder to capture your passwords by looking over your shoulder...