Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The European Union versus the Internet

stratechery.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 211 posts

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#51

Post by mdex »

yifanl wrote: post #38
plandis wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind the difference is that: * In the US: Don’t use social media if you don’t want to be tracked, it’s your choice. * In the EU: We cannot compete against big US companies so we will pass laws that are popular with entitled people to weaken them in the name of social benefits. Win-win for politicians.

I mean, the former attitude is known to be totally ineffective. The latter is possibly effective, at the cost of being (possibly?) extremely damaging.

I don't use any social media, how is that ineffective?

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#52

Post by ocdtrekkie »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #29
tw1010 wrote: post #16

It's super interesting to watch the reaction of the US blogosphere to EU laws. I feel like I'm learning a lot about US culture just by observing the general attitude that seems to be coalescing against things like GDPR. I used to think that I'd been pretty well indoctrinated into the US value system, despite being born in the EU, just by virtue of having most of my influences (movies, the internet) having come from t…

I also found the reaction interesting because even techies here were overwhelmingly in favour of GDPR. Mainly because it is so similar to data protection that's been in place for 20 years and they have been used to implementing without problem. That included founders and executives within companies. Thanks to the profile of people I know that's been mainly in smaller companies. Most of the negative opinion I heard wa…

I think the maximum penalty = always penalty sort of misunderstanding tends to appear when programmers look at the law. Technical people tend to look at the laws in a technical way. Does this equal a violation or does it not? If it does, what will it cost? Judicious opinion or "We'll know it when we see it" rarely sits well with those of us who are used to cementing behavior into lines of code.

Existing laws we already operate under have much more severe maximum penalties than people realize, and judges are (relatively) reasonable at applying them correctly. Right here in the US, nearly everyone is technically violating some law every day, the key is ensuring that our justice system has the mechanics in place to deal with clear violators, while having adequate redress for improper application of the law.

The copyright law is much the same. No, memes will not get banned by it. Yes, Google News will have to pay for the content they scrape. No, you will not get hunted down by the copyright gestapo for sending a link to a friend.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#53

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

tw1010 wrote: post #16

It's super interesting to watch the reaction of the US blogosphere to EU laws. I feel like I'm learning a lot about US culture just by observing the general attitude that seems to be coalescing against things like GDPR. I used to think that I'd been pretty well indoctrinated into the US value system, despite being born in the EU, just by virtue of having most of my influences (movies, the internet) having come from t…

Your last sentence sounds like cargo culting at its best.

I won't claim to know what the "optimal mindset" is, but I think it's obvious that both the US and the EU have made many blunders in recent history, economically and otherwise. I'm sure if there is an optimal mindset, it is one that learns from those of the US, EU, Asia, etc. and takes the best of each (not necessarily in equal proportions, of course).

Knowing different cultures, contrasting them and making your own choices will always be superior to being "indoctrinated" (voluntarily or not) into one.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#54

Post by Semaphor »

panzagl wrote: post #42
Semaphor wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> although (and this may be the American in me speaking) I am perhaps a bit skeptical about just how much most consumers care relative to elites in the media. The difference in general between EU and USA: in the EU it's seen as a good thing to protect people even when they don't understand why. In the USA, excluding weird outliers like "careful, fresh coffee is hot" it's not.

The US assumes people are capable of understanding things for themselves- my grocery store tracks my purchases in exchange for coupons and discounts, I feel it's worth it. FB holds my family's pictures hostage to show me ads, not worth it. Simple. The EU also seems to assume that if someone is making money, someone else is being damaged- that every economic exchange is unfair. I don't really think that's true- it's n…

> The EU also seems to assume that if someone is making money, someone else is being damaged

How did you reach that conclusion?

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#55

Post by emilfihlman »

davidhyde wrote: post #39
mrmekon wrote: post #18

In my network of friends, which is within the EU and comprised entirely of EU citizens and spans multiple EU tech companies from dinky startups to Giant Unicorn, GDPR has been almost universally approved. We had to implement it, and generally feel better for having done so. The Giant Unicorn employees were dismayed by how little time they were given for such a giant task, but were in support of the law. Everybody is…

I 100% agree with this. GDPR is a shining beacon of success and it blows my mind that it came from the same clowns that made the cookie law. They covered my internet with cookie banner graffiti and now they want to mess with something as fundamental as a hyperlink.

GDPR is absolutely not the shining beacon of success. Let's review at some glaring, obvious and 100%-lets-make-this-law-shite points:

1. Application and enforcement: GDPR is 100% arbitrarily enforced, it is a "trust us, we could do no harm, trust us" law, that is extremely well suited to adding other such "trust us" laws.

2. Absolutely ridiculous overreach: on a technical level, GDPR is braindead. It applies ridiculous, stupid and unnecessary restrictions for no purpose.

3. You just added an obligatory "lol accept this or GTFO" thing to all sites.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#57

Post by driminicus »

mdex wrote: post #51
yifanl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the former attitude is known to be totally ineffective. The latter is possibly effective, at the cost of being (possibly?) extremely damaging.

I don't use any social media, how is that ineffective?

Facebook and Google are known to track non-users around the internet as well.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#58

Post by ObsoleteNerd »

no1youknowz wrote: post #4

It's not just the EU that the Internet is in danger of. A Labour MP in the UK announced a bill that wants to curtail "closed" forums on social media [0]. Analysis on the topic [1]. [0]: https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/3062557/mp-plans-laws-to-ope... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eobVBf5S8uM

That's absolutely ridiculous. Is she going to let us listen in on all her private phone calls? Read all her emails?

Please tell me this has no hope of passing...

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#59

Post by heinrichhartman »

reacweb wrote: post #12

The usage of natural language to write legislations about internet will always create ambiguities and loopholes. I think regulations should be writen in a mathematical language with proof of consistency and unambigous reference implementation of algorithms that are imposed to FAI.

I like this idea. In the internet "code is law" https://www.socialtext.net/codev2/Code%20Is%20Law - regulation happens essentially through the code of our publication platforms. Having formal specifications makes it clear wether a platform complies or not. I don't think law makers should write code thought. But laws of the form: Every website has to implement HTTPS. Or you have to accept this OAuth providers could be effective.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#60

Post by Vinnl »

kodablah wrote: post #3

> This brings me to a piece of legislation I have been very critical of for quite some time: GDPR. The intent of the legislation is certainly admirable — protect consumer privacy —although (and this may be the American in me speaking) I am perhaps a bit skeptical about just how much most consumers care relative to elites in the media. Amen. The way Google and FB are using data just doesn't bother the masses the way i…

"The masses" also don't care about, say, safety precautions their taxi drivers have to take. Until they're in an accident.
Post reply on HN