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The European Union versus the Internet

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11–20 of 211 posts

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#11
post #3

> This brings me to a piece of legislation I have been very critical of for quite some time: GDPR. The intent of the legislation is certainly admirable — protect consumer privacy —although (and this may be the American in me speaking) I am perhaps a bit skeptical about just how much most consumers care relative to elites in the media. Amen. The way Google and FB are using data just doesn't bother the masses the way i…

> Amen. The way Google and FB are using data just doesn't bother the masses the way it bothers the media [...]

The way elected autocrats rule also doesn't bother the local masses, obviously. The masses are short-sighted, lack understanding of certain abstract or technical concepts, and are easily fooled and misled by strong feelings.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#12
The usage of natural language to write legislations about internet will always create ambiguities and loopholes. I think regulations should be writen in a mathematical language with proof of consistency and unambigous reference implementation of algorithms that are imposed to FAI.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#13

It seems there's a common warfront in general around what can or can't be said, and it has coalesced in the every-one tool, the Internet. Greater ease to publish, greater impulse to control one another. The test of our day seems to be around the right to speak freely, online.

I'm surprised Tor usage hasn't skyrocketed.

I'd say the lack of Tor-exclusive easy-to-use applications. That Tor underpins an application should be transparent. If the Tor browser is the same on the outside as a web browser but slower, the anonymity alone isn't a good enough reason for many to use it. Rather, a (non-browser?) communication platform needs to compete on features and just happen to use Tor.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#14
post #12

The usage of natural language to write legislations about internet will always create ambiguities and loopholes. I think regulations should be writen in a mathematical language with proof of consistency and unambigous reference implementation of algorithms that are imposed to FAI.

Lets pass a law that states all laws must be written in Haskell!

Best part about it is much fewer laws will be written since so few understand that language.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#15

It seems there's a common warfront in general around what can or can't be said, and it has coalesced in the every-one tool, the Internet. Greater ease to publish, greater impulse to control one another. The test of our day seems to be around the right to speak freely, online.

I'm surprised Tor usage hasn't skyrocketed.

Well we do know that Tor usage shot up after Snowden's revelations

https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2015/5/186025-privacy-behavio...

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/tor-usage-doubles-snowden-ns...

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#16
It's super interesting to watch the reaction of the US blogosphere to EU laws. I feel like I'm learning a lot about US culture just by observing the general attitude that seems to be coalescing against things like GDPR. I used to think that I'd been pretty well indoctrinated into the US value system, despite being born in the EU, just by virtue of having most of my influences (movies, the internet) having come from there. But seeing how much different my attitude is towards all these laws, compared to articles like this one, totally gives me a whole new source of specific little value updates I aught to make if I want to escape from a mindset I suspect isn't optimal in the current economic climate (an EU-based one), to one that is (i.e. an american attitude to things).

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#17
post #12

The usage of natural language to write legislations about internet will always create ambiguities and loopholes. I think regulations should be writen in a mathematical language with proof of consistency and unambigous reference implementation of algorithms that are imposed to FAI.

I thought the whole point of legislation is that it should be left to reasonable interpretation. Trying to be exacting just leads to a race to how many loopholes we can find (and we will find them), and now you get a scenario where the law only applies to you if you cannot afford a sufficiently good lawyer.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#18
In my network of friends, which is within the EU and comprised entirely of EU citizens and spans multiple EU tech companies from dinky startups to Giant Unicorn, GDPR has been almost universally approved. We had to implement it, and generally feel better for having done so. The Giant Unicorn employees were dismayed by how little time they were given for such a giant task, but were in support of the law.

Everybody is completely and 100% against the copyright law.

There is a huge difference between the two from my point of view:

GDPR is not a law about "The Internet", it is a law about company records. It applies to Google, but it also applies to the Pakistani food stand on the corner. It affects Google a lot more, sure. I support the concept that a company does not have some inherent right to be a steward of my personal data without my explicit consent. GDPR is also easy enough for even tiny startups to comply with, and is significantly easier for small companies than large ones. It does not create a large barrier to entry for new startups or a rift between the existing small and large companies.

The copyright law, however, is a law about The Internet. It controls how businesses interact with the internet. It sets _technical_ restrictions on how they can do so. It sets technical restrictions that are probably not even feasible, at that. It absolutely does create a huge barrier to entry for small companies, and could possibly enshrine the existing tech giants into de-facto monopolies (I mean, if they aren't already...)

The copyright directive is horrible enough on its own. I don't see why everyone is in a rush to pull in mentions of GDPR to make it seem "worse". For a lot of us, it weakens the argument instead of strengthening it. Not everyone likes GDPR, obviously, but we can _all_ agree that the copyright law is garbage.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#19
I disagree with the EU about their copyright legislation, but applaud their attempts at increasing privacy.

What I find odd about the conversation around EU internet legislation is the idea that "The Internet" is a single entity that has some kind of natural state, and further that natural state is for all information to be free and to be a place where anyone can say anything (or should be able to). I think this grows out of the American origins of the Internet, and the American concept of free speech.

But other countries have different views of how free speech should be. Should you be able to deny the holocaust? Should you be able to purchase unlimited political ads? Should you be able to spread misinformation? Americans tend to say yes, because the truth will sort itself out. I'm not going to make a judgement on whether that's true, but it is true that other societies make different judgements on where to draw the line on freedom of expression, and those countries have a right to implement those decisions for their people on the Internet just as much as Americans have a right to have wild-west style freedom of expression.

Oh, also, before someone straw-mans me, I'm not talking about repressive regimes. I'm talking about societies where the populace is making informed decisions about their leaders, and have collectively decided they draw the line on expression in a different place than Americans do.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#20
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we, as technologists, should always decry heavy-handed government regulation of the internet, especially as an early step. This is not an early step. The trend has been clear for the past decade, and it has been going in the wrong direction, at increasing speeds. This is pretty much something the tech industry brought upon itself by trying to always trying to outdo itself in terms of how much tracking and priva…

> This is not an early step. The trend has been clear for the past decade, and it has been going in the wrong direction, at increasing speeds. It's an early step if you count successes. You build on success, not failures, surely that's clear. I agree it has been a trend and has been going the wrong direction at increasing speed, assuming you mean the trend is large, general internet restrictions imposed by government…

The problem they were trying to solve was a lack of transparency about what's happening with our data.

Now, I thought I was reasonably engaged on this topic and I thought GDPR was overreach. I also thought I was reasonably careful about giving out my data (sign up to very little, don't use FB etc).

That was until I started to get all the GDPR popups and read about all the places my data was being shipped to. Holy crap I was naive. I've done a 180 on this now and am a buyer. It would have been great in legislation wasn't required but I'm fully onboard with it being needed.

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