From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly • Hacker News Board

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#51

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 9:00 PM UTC

assblaster wrote: post #49

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that in Urumqi or somewhere out near the border in 北疆? I went in 2006, so it wasn’t that bad yet.

Urumqi was the absolute worst as far as overt surveillance and military intimidation. Kashgar was surprisingly not as bad. Smaller cities around Kashgar such as Yarkant or Karglik were also not bad. I think China is approaching Xinjiang as a slow but persistent conquerer would: get a foothold in a major city, transform it in your image (Han), then move out to surrounding communities until all are pacified.

North Xinjiang is much more Han than south Xinjiang, which is much more Uighur. The cities are obviously more Ham, especially around Urumqi, but even the countryside is more diverse in north Xinjiang with kazaks and Tajiks.

I’m surprised the PLA isn’t being harsher near kashgar, they have more problems there than in Urumqi.

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#52

Post by assblaster » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 10:19 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #51

assblaster wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Urumqi was the absolute worst as far as overt surveillance and military intimidation. Kashgar was surprisingly not as bad. Smaller cities around Kashgar such as Yarkant or Karglik were also not bad. I think China is approaching Xinjiang as a slow but persistent conquerer would: get a foothold in a major city, transform it in your image (Han), then move out to surrounding communities until all are pacified.

North Xinjiang is much more Han than south Xinjiang, which is much more Uighur. The cities are obviously more Ham, especially around Urumqi, but even the countryside is more diverse in north Xinjiang with kazaks and Tajiks. I’m surprised the PLA isn’t being harsher near kashgar, they have more problems there than in Urumqi.

I think that since the South and West are so much more Uyghur, if the PLA stressed the population too much they'd have a full blown revolt on their hands. What's happening in Tibet is also a good indication of what the PLA intends to do with ethnic dilution.

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#53

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 11:03 PM UTC

assblaster wrote: post #52

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Xinjiang is much more Han than south Xinjiang, which is much more Uighur. The cities are obviously more Ham, especially around Urumqi, but even the countryside is more diverse in north Xinjiang with kazaks and Tajiks. I’m surprised the PLA isn’t being harsher near kashgar, they have more problems there than in Urumqi.

I think that since the South and West are so much more Uyghur, if the PLA stressed the population too much they'd have a full blown revolt on their hands. What's happening in Tibet is also a good indication of what the PLA intends to do with ethnic dilution.

....which is a bit ironic since the Qing brought the Uighurs into north xinjiang in the first place because the Dhunzgars killed off most of the Han living there (well, after they then used the Uighurs to kill the Dhunzgar...).

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#54

Post by woodandsteel » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 9:38 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #40

lazerpants wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to tell, given that China is a dictatorship, but there are some in the party and state that are perhaps opposed to Xi seizing so much power. Good article on this: https://www.economist.com/china/2018/08/11/how-to-read-summe...

China is more of an authoritarian aristocracy at this point ruled by a few really powerful red families. Xi’s is only one such family, the others have power and will often duke it out in various factions. I still don’t think Xi is as powerful as even Jiang Zemin was, he definitely isn’t at Deng’s level yet.

If Xi is not very powerful, then how was he able to do away with the two-term limit?

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#55

Post by woodandsteel » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

dnomad wrote: post #28

tepidandroid wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm really tired of people fawning over China. Where are you seeing this? Any thread even remotely involving China is 95% filled with anti-Chinese posts, such as your own. There were a few this week. Heck, look in this very same comment thread -where are the 'fawners' you speak of?

It's strange, isn't it? It's a ritual at this point: an anti-China post is submitted by adventured, rapidly voted up, and then filled with comments that are a competition to see who can denounce China the most. What do you suppose the point is? Is it a Trump thing? It certainly wasn't always the case. There was a time when I happily shared HN with Chinese colleagues. Was that point, I wonder.

So you're saying things in China are actually pretty good? How about some specifics.