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How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

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Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#51

Post by chalkandpaste »

bscphil wrote: post #42
chalkandpaste wrote: post #24

I disabled everything from Pocket I possibly can when I downloaded and setup Firefox, in the `about:config`. That integration annoys me to no end. Who decided I needed pocket in my browser?

The belief most people have that Mozilla puts things in the browser they expect to be useful to users is mistaken and needs to die. They didn't decide you needed Pocket in your browser. They wanted Pocket in your browser, so that they could sell story spots (read: ads) to the highest bidder. They discuss advertising in the browser chrome here: https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2018/04/30/a-privacy... Note the P…

I agree but I didn’t want to say that as it seemed obvious (at least to me).

Mozilla, a non-profit, which produces primarily a browser with currently a small market share, needs to do something to bring in some revenue. Having Google as the default search at one time (and may still be) a revenue stream for them.

But on the last point about advertising. I disagree with your statement. In many cases, advertising allows consumers to know about services and goods they might otherwise not know about. This isn’t inherently bad. I believe the adtech way, though, is because it puts at harm a lot of people’s data for, often times, a very negligible benefit in reaching consumers.

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#52

Post by Techonomicon »

class4behavior wrote: post #48
xg15 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he wanted to be able to subscribe to people's pages and get updates when they post something new. Yes, but even this feature would be more like a traditional browser: A service-neutral, "dumb" feature where the user is directly in control. Not in an abstract marketing sense but literally: A user subscribes to a page and will get all events from tha page in predicatable order. The "news feed" as implemented by Faceb…

You've explained where Facebook's likely interest lies, but not why that feature is actually popular. I don't see any difference with how HN and Reddit attract people. They all seek the added social aspect to reading news; and Facebook is just what people know. >Apologies for being cynical, but I'm not surprised. Luckily cynicism doesn't equal realism. FF devs often make data-driven decisions, and none of the devs sh…

Reddit and hn are quite different in the sense that HN actively (allegedly) attempts to fight against clickbait / mislabeled titles where resdit (in general) leaves that up to the subreddits to manage which (in general) do nothing.

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#53

Post by dublinben »

twblalock wrote: post #35

Every time Mozilla does something like this, or a promotion like the Mr. Robot thing, they remove a differentiator between Firefox and Chrome. Mozilla is making it easier to think thoughts like this: If Firefox is just as bad as the other browsers, you might as well use the most popular one.

The most important differentiator will always remain that Firefox is free software and Chrome is the proprietary expression of the largest advertising company in the world. Anything else either of them does is peripheral to that.

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#54

Post by cpeterso »

Sylos wrote: post #44
jes5199 wrote: post #7

I tried to switch back to Firefox, but my password manager (lastpass) doesn’t work correctly, I guess the new extension APIs are too restrictiy. So, Chrome it is.

Firefox's new extension API is Chrome's extension API + a few extra APIs. There's a handful of APIs that are actually Chrome/-ium specific, which made no sense porting to Firefox in the exact same way, but those should not be critical to the functioning of a password manager. The only way in which Firefox is actually more restrictive with extensions, is in requiring user opt-in for internet connections that are not n…

LastPass ran into some issues moving to the new WebExtension API last year, but it does support Firefox and is actively maintained. The most recent LastPass update was released just yesterday.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/lastpass-pass...

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#55

Post by yborg »

droidist2 wrote: post #8
stev0lution wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there might be a point where recommendation algorithms kind of 'overfit'/become a filter bubble. I remember reading a article about the youtube recommendation algorithm led to increasingly more radical videos until you end up on 'that weird side' of youtube ( https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/opinion/sunday/youtube-po... ). Depends entirely on what metric you are trying to opimize, I guess. With youtube is p…

For some reason YouTube assumes I really like Mariya Takeuchi - Plastic Love and recommends it from almost every video I watch. A look at the comments suggests I'm not the only one this happens to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bNITQR4Uso

Or maybe someone at YouTube just has great taste ;)

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#57

Post by yorwba »

chalkandpaste wrote: post #51
bscphil wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The belief most people have that Mozilla puts things in the browser they expect to be useful to users is mistaken and needs to die. They didn't decide you needed Pocket in your browser. They wanted Pocket in your browser, so that they could sell story spots (read: ads) to the highest bidder. They discuss advertising in the browser chrome here: https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2018/04/30/a-privacy... Note the P…

I agree but I didn’t want to say that as it seemed obvious (at least to me). Mozilla, a non-profit, which produces primarily a browser with currently a small market share, needs to do something to bring in some revenue. Having Google as the default search at one time (and may still be) a revenue stream for them. But on the last point about advertising. I disagree with your statement. In many cases, advertising allows…

> In many cases, advertising allows consumers to know about services and goods they might otherwise not know about.

I agree that advertising can help in that way, but I'm not sure how often that actually happens. The largest markets tend to be for products where everyone is generally aware that they exist (otherwise the market woulndn't be large) and most products are only differentiated by brand (e.g. fashion) instead of novel features. Because generic internet advertising follows the money, it ends up as a zero-sum game about moving market share between brands.

If there were a site that allowed only ads for completely novel products, or if the ad is just a link to a double-blinded study comparing along a measurable dimension against a competitor, I might subscribe voluntarily to be advertised to. Until then, HN comes close enough.

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#58

Post by yorwba »

windlep wrote: post #13
trendia wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to the ESR branch specifically to get a web browser that just browses the web. (It's the default in Debian for that very reason!) However, version 60 added pocket, along with other "features" such as the optional Firefox experiments (where, if you opt in, they track your user behavior to improve the browser). Guess I'll be looking for a new browser again.

Hover over pocket area on new tab, click the '...' in the top right, click "Remove Section", done. Firefox is about letting you control your browser experience, that's why the ability to easily remove options you might not like will always exist. If/when this ever changes, that would be a significant departure from their Mission statement.

> Hover over pocket area on new tab, click the '...' in the top right, click "Remove Section", done.

Thanks, I never noticed the '...' menu. Now my new tabs are refreshingly empty. I just don't understand why a '...' was even necessary, all of the options would still have fit nicely when expanded to a horizontal bar. I blame whitespace-driven design.

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#59

Post by narag »

dublinben wrote: post #53
twblalock wrote: post #35

Every time Mozilla does something like this, or a promotion like the Mr. Robot thing, they remove a differentiator between Firefox and Chrome. Mozilla is making it easier to think thoughts like this: If Firefox is just as bad as the other browsers, you might as well use the most popular one.

The most important differentiator will always remain that Firefox is free software and Chrome is the proprietary expression of the largest advertising company in the world. Anything else either of them does is peripheral to that.

IIRC Chromium is free software, even if it is a proprietary expression of something. There's only so much bs you can pull before people has you figured out. I still use Firefox, but it's been years since any news about it made me happy. Seriously considering now to compile Chromium myself and use it as my main browser.

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#60

Post by windlep »

trendia wrote: post #18
windlep wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hover over pocket area on new tab, click the '...' in the top right, click "Remove Section", done. Firefox is about letting you control your browser experience, that's why the ability to easily remove options you might not like will always exist. If/when this ever changes, that would be a significant departure from their Mission statement.

> Firefox is about letting you control your browser experience The true history of Pocket suggests otherwise -- in 2015 Mozilla integrated Pocket, which was at that time a private company separate from Mozilla, into Firefox. Further, when Mozilla first integrated it into Firefox, there was no way to remove it, only hide the icon: > "This page http://help.getpocket.com/customer/portal/articles/1999137-h... . purports…

You can disable Pocket. Once disabled, there is no change in the browsing experience.

> The true history of Pocket suggests otherwise -- in 2015 Mozilla integrated Pocket, which was at that time a private company separate from Mozilla, into Firefox.

What in this true history you cite indicates otherwise?

Please elaborate on how some config settings are altering your browser experience.

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