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Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

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Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#51

Post by skbly7 »

GFischer wrote: post #23
rmsaksida wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't complain "they're adding ads!" unless you have a credible solution for somehow bringing in billions of dollars otherwise, and the WhatsApp founders didn't What about business features? Pretty much every business in my country advertises a Whatsapp number, from large companies to mom-and-pops. People contact them over Whatsapp to ask questions, make complaints, order stuff, everything. I can't believe Face…

Every company I've worked for wants an official WhatsApp business API. And apparently that's what they proposed to Sandberg, according to the article, but the financial projections were nowhere near what ads would bring.

I think they are already working in that direction I last checked. https://www.whatsapp.com/business/

I liked the business app especially for shortcuts, auto-replies and other stuffs. But yes, official APIs is deal-breaker.

NOTE: Many applications and websites somehow are already using custom APIs (or something). Ex. Airlines sending booking details as WhatsApp message, flight/bus status and so on.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#52

Post by hannasanarion »

nottorp wrote: post #26
1123581321 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever called to cancel the WSJ? I have stopped the WSJ three times and the FT twice (same phone service.) It’s easy to do. They will make a retention offer but will not do things like hang up on you, require you to have moved out of your area, make you wait, etc. Of course I prefer self-service cancellation to be an option, but if the personal service route is handled well, it’s a small negative in my book, n…

Oh wait. >They will make a retention offer but will not do things like hang up on you, REQUIRE YOU TO HAVE MOVED OUT OF YOUR AREA You're stating this like it's a normal requirement for canceling subscriptions. I understand you're praising WSJ for not doing that but... Do you accept treatment like this in the US? Are press subscriptions a lifetime commitment over there? Do I need to indenture my firstborn to any magaz…

It's pretty normal for utility subscriptions, since they can use the fact that you're moving to upsell you on their service elsewhere or a partner's.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#53

Post by GFischer »

skbly7 wrote: post #51
GFischer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every company I've worked for wants an official WhatsApp business API. And apparently that's what they proposed to Sandberg, according to the article, but the financial projections were nowhere near what ads would bring.

I think they are already working in that direction I last checked. https://www.whatsapp.com/business/ I liked the business app especially for shortcuts, auto-replies and other stuffs. But yes, official APIs is deal-breaker. NOTE: Many applications and websites somehow are already using custom APIs (or something). Ex. Airlines sending booking details as WhatsApp message, flight/bus status and so on.

Yes, the custom APIs exist but are very hacky.

I work for one of the largest travel groups, I'm actually working on flight notifications, and they don't want to go there - no idea how other airlines or travel groups do it.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#54

Post by _jal »

Djvacto wrote: post #9

So, I use WhatsApp as my primary source of communication. Knowing facebook owned it always made me a little nervous, but given that it was end-to-end encrypted, I figured Facebook wasn't getting any more from me then they would from all my facebook-using-friends who would send me SMS's before. But I'm worried about how long I can continue to use the service moving forward, which is sad as this is my main way to commu…

I find it much easier to not communicate with FB properties, period. That way I only worry that my IP tables are up to date.

I also realize other peoples' choice of family/friends make that hard for them. (My FB-addict-mother and I email, and at this point even the passive-aggressive bits about not seeing pictures has stopped.)

But if you can, I can attest that the internet is a much nicer place with a big hole where FB (and similar hostile entities) used to be.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#55

Post by skbly7 »

innagadadavida wrote: post #20

Apple should port Messages app to Android and other platforms, this is a great opportunity for them to capitalize on. It is unlikely though, as the strategy is to get people to buy iPhones to get Messages.

Blackberry and BBM went this route already, and we know what happened to them. I think it is high time for Apple to jump the ship and get messages into Android. :)

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#56

Post by webignition »

pm90 wrote: post #12
Djvacto wrote: post #9

So, I use WhatsApp as my primary source of communication. Knowing facebook owned it always made me a little nervous, but given that it was end-to-end encrypted, I figured Facebook wasn't getting any more from me then they would from all my facebook-using-friends who would send me SMS's before. But I'm worried about how long I can continue to use the service moving forward, which is sad as this is my main way to commu…

Hmm once you teach someone to use WhatsApp, another messaging app shouldn't be that hard to learn. I believe FB have been very careful to prevent misusing WhatsApp platform (or have been very good at keeping the misuse secret lol); if word got out that they were it would certainly lead to a huge exodus.

For many this is probably true.

For my 84 year old neighbour, not so. He regularly pops round for help with sharing a picture on WhatsApp.

It's beyond my neighbour's ability to learn how to use WhatsApp correctly. Learning another messaging app for him is not an option.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#57

Post by rm999 »

I've had a tremendous amount of respect for Mark Zuckerberg as a leader, and have gone out of my way to defend him in the past (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17128369). I always envisioned whatsapp as a defensive purchase that would stay true to its initial vision (perhaps being used to prop up their other products in an unintrusive manner). But this article makes me realize Mark is s a one-trick advertising pony like half the other tech leaders out there.

His speil about how he's "connecting the world" is undermined by his clear attempts to build a monopoly of social+communication, with an inefficient layer of distracting ads. Imagine a future where every time you want to electronically communicate with someone you have to spend mental energy filtering out ads. It's the equivalent of every road having a toll booth, directly paying into a rich person's bank account. This is the "connecting the world" Mark Zuckerberg has been trying to hide from those of us who aren't paying attention.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#58

Post by sk5t »

Djvacto wrote: post #41
brisance wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this article, somehow prosecutors were able to retrieve deleted WhatsApp messages. https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/five-ind...

So I see it mention that they were in trouble for deleting "potentiall incriminating" conversations. Are there any details or other articles that confirm the deleted messages were retrieved?

Ditto, the linked article indicates only that the parties had deleted a conversation between them at a critical moment, but not that the specific content of that conversation could be known.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#59

Post by doctorsher »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #31
Djvacto wrote: post #9

So, I use WhatsApp as my primary source of communication. Knowing facebook owned it always made me a little nervous, but given that it was end-to-end encrypted, I figured Facebook wasn't getting any more from me then they would from all my facebook-using-friends who would send me SMS's before. But I'm worried about how long I can continue to use the service moving forward, which is sad as this is my main way to commu…

> but given that it was end-to-end encrypted, ... FB, via the WhatsApp app, have access to your unencrypted messages before the app encrypts them and sends them on. So, there's reason to worry now that FB is in full control. I have no doubt they'll extract data from your conversations and inject targeted ads. Edit: Am I wrong? Do they not have access to the plain text?

With regards to your edit, yes, you are wrong. And I don't mean that in a harsh way, just answering your question.

From WhatsApp themselves [0]: "WhatsApp end-to-end encryption ensures only you and the person you're communicating with can read what's sent, and nobody in between, not even WhatsApp. Your messages are secured with locks, and only the recipient and you have the special keys needed to unlock and read your messages."

[0] https://faq.whatsapp.com/en/general/28030015

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#60

Post by bad_user »

pavanky wrote: post #45
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #13

I kind of have to wonder what Jan Koum and Brian Acton were thinking (OK, I don't really wonder - they got paid billions of dollars, who wouldn't do it). But, of course, if you sell a company for billions of dollars, there is the obvious expectation that within some time frame your company will earn revenue and profit to support that valuation. You can't complain "they're adding ads!" unless you have a credible solut…

I was happy paying a subscription fee to whatsapp when it was still a thing. I dont know if facebook has ever made money off of ads shown to me. Same goes with google and the subscription I pay for google music.

People think they generate no revenue via ads, but you do, all of you are.

Best ads on Facebook are brand ads and these work on your subconscious. Unlike Google Search that shows immediate intent, you don’t have an immediate need while browsing FB. Sure there’s the occasional impulse buy for some iPhone case or jewelry you don’t need, but the big companies don’t care for your clicks. E.g. what are the default beverages people buy when organizing an event? Beer and Coke and it’s not a coincidence or because there aren’t better choices.

In other words, as long as you look at ads, your buying choices get influenced by them, so you are generating revenue for pay-per-view ads, even if you never clicked on one.

I don’t mind seeing ads though, as long as they are tasteful. What I mind is the tracking and in that regard Facebook is among the worst.

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