Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 251 posts

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#51

Post by StudentStuff »

sf_rob wrote: post #11
austincheney wrote: post #3

Does Tesla have automation problems? They appear to be having atrocious labor conditions while putting out a very small quantity of product compared with absolutely everybody else.

Musk in an interview last week said as much (re: automation). He claims that the Model 3 line was over-automated so now they're tearing out sections for rework while doing more with the labor on hand. (Although they're about to also install new sections from their German automation subsidiary so it goes both ways).

The whole play with making their own tooling seems ill conceived at Tesla's small scale, and it has definitely set the Model 3's production back quite a bit.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#52

Post by [deleted] »

rdiddly wrote: post #13
briandear wrote: post #5

Elon Musk is the Preston Tucker of our time — seems to get hammered from all sides while trying to break the status quo. I have no information to comment on the validity of any allegations, but it seems like Musk is continually under attack. I was a moderate Musk fan before, but now I am really hoping for his success. It seems to me that if you are pissing off everyone, you’re doing something right. I highly recommen…

If everybody hates you, you are NOT doing something right. If everybody loves you, then you're doing it right, and in fact you barely even have to do anything because everybody's helping you.

[deleted]

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#53

Post by on_and_off »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #37
eganist wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually willing to give Tesla credit here precisely for that reason -- not because unions are bad (many industries need it, auto included), but because UAW in my possibly-misinformed mind has been at least indirectly the cause of a decline in build quality in American cars.

The journalists refute what Tesla is saying in their ongoing AMA: Hi there, we did this reporting completely independently of the union. This is another instance of deceptive Tesla wording, when Tesla says: working directly with union supporters what they mean is that some of the workers Reveal interviewed were in the union. Of course some of the interviewees weren't tied to the union but those go unmentioned.

I have got to say, in the past year I have gotten from "oh I should get a Tesla some day if I need a car" to "nope, never buying anything from these guys".

I appreciate what Tesla did to popularize electric cars, but everything else isn't that great.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#54

Post by rdiddly »

soheil wrote: post #43
ucaetano wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translation: "Things in the universe happen for no greater reason at all, they just happen according to a small and simple set of laws that describe the behavior of matter-energy and space-time" vs. "There's a being, which is conscious, all-knowing and all-powerful, sitting somewhere, or actually nowhere, that uses its power to set things in motion or not, depending on its mood, and how it likes some people, but by n…

Using longer sentences and adding arbitrary words does not make an explanation more complex. I was simply pointing out that simplest explanation may not always be the most accurate.

You're in luck, Occam's Razor doesn't say anything about what's always accurate. It's more like advice, telling you to prefer the explanation that requires making the fewest assumptions.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#55

Post by kistaro »

matte_black wrote: post #4
austincheney wrote: post #3

Does Tesla have automation problems? They appear to be having atrocious labor conditions while putting out a very small quantity of product compared with absolutely everybody else.

I bet. I see this frequently in companies with high automation dependency. If your automation isn’t working correctly you accelerate full speed into a brick wall.

That's Toyota, we're talking about Tesla.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#56

Post by bkcreate »

mc32 wrote: post #26
dbt00 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because being the low-regulation option worked out well for Arizona and Uber...?

Well, likely better than it would have in CA. Back on topic, Mazda, Toyota have plants there, they have the workforce and friendlier reg., which is a plus if you're a MFG.

There a lot more than you would think down here: Honda, Mercedes, Kia, Toyota, Mazda all have plants and many of their suppliers are also in state.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#57

Post by danso »

ikmujn wrote: post #20
craftyguy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> investigation That's an important word, since it does not mean that he is convicted of doing so. If investigation immediately meant guilt, the world would be a very different place.

The allegations about public, verified data? That's called evidence.

To be fair, this particular investigation alleges that Tesla has underreported workplace-related injuries by classifying them as minor or unrelated personal issues; Tesla argues that it does not misclassify injuries. The integrity of the public data (what Tesla is required to report) is in question, so I don't know if we can call it "verified", other than in the official sense (i.e. we know what Tesla has officially reported).

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#58

Post by kps »

soheil wrote: post #43
ucaetano wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translation: "Things in the universe happen for no greater reason at all, they just happen according to a small and simple set of laws that describe the behavior of matter-energy and space-time" vs. "There's a being, which is conscious, all-knowing and all-powerful, sitting somewhere, or actually nowhere, that uses its power to set things in motion or not, depending on its mood, and how it likes some people, but by n…

Using longer sentences and adding arbitrary words does not make an explanation more complex. I was simply pointing out that simplest explanation may not always be the most accurate.

> Using longer sentences and adding arbitrary words does not make an explanation more complex.

Exactly.

A creator-god does not explain the complexity of life, it just adds an additional layer, so the combined system is more complicated than the original. That's precisely what Occam's Razor rejects.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#59

Post by mabufo »

eganist wrote: post #25
rdiddly wrote: post #18

"...an ideologically motivated attack by an extremist organization working directly with union supporters to create a calculated disinformation campaign against Tesla" vs. "...Tesla failed to report serious injuries on legally mandated reports to make its numbers appear better than they actually were." Now use Occam's Razor.

I'm actually willing to give Tesla credit here precisely for that reason -- not because unions are bad (many industries need it, auto included), but because UAW in my possibly-misinformed mind has been at least indirectly the cause of a decline in build quality in American cars.

That is absolutely baseless.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#60

Post by mabufo »

komali2 wrote: post #41
chalkandpaste wrote: post #16

THIS IS FANTASTIC. I’ve had a friend, a specialist engineer doing failure analysis, who has been largely incapacitated from any work because of Tesla. He sustained an injury during a high urgency project (which failed, whodathunk) which required him to work 16 hour days for a few months. During the course of this, he sustained injuries to arms and legs due to machinery issues (the machinery at Tesla often has workers…

With respect to you and your friend, I'm automatically skeptical of stories like this. We're on the internet, after all. Has your friend spoken to news agencies about this? Why not, if he/she hasn't? Surely any of the major news agencies would be watering at the mouth for a story like this.

What are you skeptical about? That this person's friend is actually injured? That it happened because of tesla? People get injured at work. Maybe not where YOU work, but it absolutely happens.

Also, the subtext of your comment - that this person OF COURSE would have contacted a news organization if their claim was legitimate is frankly very weird.

Post reply on HN