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Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#51

Post by fixermark »

wavesounds wrote: post #45
fixermark wrote: post #14

""" Zuckerberg reluctantly acknowledged that Facebook gathers information on people who aren't signed up for Facebook for what he said were "security purposes." """ That's a pretty disingenuous way to phrase Zuckerberg's response to a question of whether Facebook uses cookie tracking for logged-out users. Which of course it does, and it's of course used for security purposes; one has to be able to unify sessions from…

Zuckerberg is the one being disingenuous. By acknowledging cookie tracking or scraper tracking, he answers the question that indeed FB tracks offline usage, but only mentions the innocuous cases and fails to acknowledge the Shadow Profiles[1] they clearly have 1. https://www.dailydot.com/news/facebook-shadow-profiles-priva...

He actually mentions both in the original quote (if Bloomberg was sourcing to the section of the hearing I assume they're sourcing from).

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#52

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

inlined wrote: post #22
warent wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do recall hearing live that he said he wasn't familiar with the term "shadow profiles." This may have been honest, I hadn't heard it before this hearing either, but then again I'm not the CEO of Facebook, so his answer is certainly troubling

Given that employees are told they can no longer use the word "shadow profile" to describe them, I suspect he knew what they meant.

> Given that employees are told they can no longer use the word "shadow profile"

What's the source of this information?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#53

Post by fixermark »

shmerl wrote: post #35
fixermark wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most fascinating thing about human behavior is that in spite of what people know, they still trust Facebook. Hell, I've been a Facebook app developer. I'm deeply familiar with the breadth and depth of information Facebook allowed an app to harvest ca. 2008 or so. I still use FB multiple times a day because I don't care about my privacy vis-a-vis the things I post there and that my friends post there.

I do care, that's why I don't use FB. Problem in using it is the network effect itself multiplied by the untrustworthy, closed and centralized foundation. I.e. you don't just harm yourself by using it, you are harming others by proliferating its use, because by using it, you are encouraging others to use it too.

That's if you're already approaching it from the point of view that it's a bad thing. I believe that question is unsettled.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#54

Post by cryptoz »

fixermark wrote: post #49
common_ wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't just basic cookie tracking. They have an actual profile on you, without your consent, with the people who have you in their address book and even potentially your purchasing habits, from the data they purchase from data brokers like Datalogix. They maintain this profile on you separately from other users, and they make immediate use of it if you create an account. That's why it's called a shadow profile.

How does such a practice differ morally from consumer credit reporting agencies?

You sign up for those when you get a credit card. You don't sign up for Facebook, they just start tracking you. You don't even have to go online for it to happen. They'll do it from your friend's profiles. It's quite different.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#55

Post by OrganicMSG »

shmerl wrote: post #35
fixermark wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most fascinating thing about human behavior is that in spite of what people know, they still trust Facebook. Hell, I've been a Facebook app developer. I'm deeply familiar with the breadth and depth of information Facebook allowed an app to harvest ca. 2008 or so. I still use FB multiple times a day because I don't care about my privacy vis-a-vis the things I post there and that my friends post there.

I do care, that's why I don't use FB. Problem in using it is the network effect itself multiplied by the untrustworthy, closed and centralized foundation. I.e. you don't just harm yourself by using it, you are harming others by proliferating its use, because by using it, you are encouraging others to use it too.

I've never used it. For some reason this makes some people extremely curious as to my reasons and then very angry with me after I state them.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#56

Post by ynniv »

fixermark wrote: post #44
ynniv wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A competent adversary won't carry cookies between sessions, so there is no security afforded by it. These cookies are solely to track the general population.

I agree, but I also note you may be underestimating the number of competent adversaries in the world and the cost / benefit analysis of doing something like this to eliminate a large-percentage case of bad behavior.

Incognito mode makes cookie avoidance easy, even for average users.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#57

Post by tzahola »

kristianc wrote: post #23

>Make the most of every campaign with these four strategies. Unlike display ads which target people based on cookies, Facebook lets you define and reach the exact target audience you want. You'll get the right eyes on your ads, while maximizing your time, budget and growth potential. Zuckerberg is going to lose his shit when he sees what his Digital Ads team has done behind his back. Facebook is brazen about being a…

"behind his back"

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#58

Post by [deleted] »

common_ wrote: post #37
fixermark wrote: post #14

""" Zuckerberg reluctantly acknowledged that Facebook gathers information on people who aren't signed up for Facebook for what he said were "security purposes." """ That's a pretty disingenuous way to phrase Zuckerberg's response to a question of whether Facebook uses cookie tracking for logged-out users. Which of course it does, and it's of course used for security purposes; one has to be able to unify sessions from…

This isn't just basic cookie tracking. They have an actual profile on you, without your consent, with the people who have you in their address book and even potentially your purchasing habits, from the data they purchase from data brokers like Datalogix. They maintain this profile on you separately from other users, and they make immediate use of it if you create an account. That's why it's called a shadow profile.

[deleted]

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#59

Post by neffy »

Waterluvian wrote: post #2

Is that so surprising? You're asking him to talk about the one thing that makes Facebook a viable revenue generator. I also feel like the use of "admit" in the headline is disingenuous. I have zero expertise in this field but my intuition is that Facebook runs on an incredibly sensitive business model. Like an animal specialised to a specific biome. Adjust the conditions a bit and it might perish in a few generations…

Exactly. What real time advertising network markets have done, is effectively incentivized Facebook, and anybody else selling internet ad space to create a Big Brother database in order to maximise revenue from any source that's prepared to pay.

Whilst I suspect this probably wasn't exactly what Marx meant when he said that Capitalism inevitably sews the seeds of its own destruction... combine it with a political system funded predominantly by private money, and I guess the only thing saving the US at the moment is that the oil price is so low.

"My reality was post-apocalyptic and it wasn't this fucked up" Penny Adiyodi, The Magicians.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#60

Post by gsich »

ynniv wrote: post #56
fixermark wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I also note you may be underestimating the number of competent adversaries in the world and the cost / benefit analysis of doing something like this to eliminate a large-percentage case of bad behavior.

Incognito mode makes cookie avoidance easy, even for average users.

Or using another browser. And yes your average user is able to do that.
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