Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works • Hacker News Board

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#31

Post by fwdpropaganda » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:17 PM UTC

mfoy_ wrote: post #12

I think the biggest thing is the HUGE disconnect with what people think Facebook is doing, and what Facebook is actually doing. I think the whole point of this is to raise awareness about of the scope of Facebook's data collection-- It's unfathomably enormous. If more average people had a better understanding of what Facebook was tracking, they'd be outraged. Zuckerberg's goal in this was to keep the wool pulled over…

> That's why he kept conflating post-visibility settings with privacy / tracking settings.

Interesting. That's pretty clever, which gives me confidence that's exactly what he was doing.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#32

Post by bkovacev » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:18 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #14

""" Zuckerberg reluctantly acknowledged that Facebook gathers information on people who aren't signed up for Facebook for what he said were "security purposes." """ That's a pretty disingenuous way to phrase Zuckerberg's response to a question of whether Facebook uses cookie tracking for logged-out users. Which of course it does, and it's of course used for security purposes; one has to be able to unify sessions from…

How can one protect himself against this?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#33

Post by inlined » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:18 PM UTC

mfoy_ wrote: post #12

I think the biggest thing is the HUGE disconnect with what people think Facebook is doing, and what Facebook is actually doing. I think the whole point of this is to raise awareness about of the scope of Facebook's data collection-- It's unfathomably enormous. If more average people had a better understanding of what Facebook was tracking, they'd be outraged. Zuckerberg's goal in this was to keep the wool pulled over…

And what's worse is that privacy controls explicitly don't control ad targeting. Years ago I had a long term relationship end. We hid our relationship status and only ended the status a year later. Immediately after changing a status marked "only me" in privacy settings I got bombarded with dating ads. I complained that this was a huge privacy violation and they said "we didn't share your relationship status with them. We matched you to them because of the relationship status"

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#34

Post by gringoDan » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:18 PM UTC

justinzollars wrote: post #4

I think the questions were also horrible. Watching two days of testimony it seemed only Congresswoman Dingell from Michigan had any grasp of how tracking technology works. My big takeaway is that we need more engineers in congress.

One of my biggest issues with the current political system is that - with few exceptions - only lawyers go into politics.

This means that you have people who have never taken Econ 101 setting fiscal policy, who don't understand technology trying to regulate tech companies, etc.

I'm not sure what the solution here is, but I think we're asking for trouble when our elected representatives lack a basic comprehension of the domains in which they legislate.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#35

Post by shmerl » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:19 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #20

shmerl wrote: post #15

So why should anyone trust him? People should use open source social networks that can be audited.

The most fascinating thing about human behavior is that in spite of what people know, they still trust Facebook. Hell, I've been a Facebook app developer. I'm deeply familiar with the breadth and depth of information Facebook allowed an app to harvest ca. 2008 or so. I still use FB multiple times a day because I don't care about my privacy vis-a-vis the things I post there and that my friends post there.

I do care, that's why I don't use FB. Problem in using it is the network effect itself multiplied by the untrustworthy, closed and centralized foundation. I.e. you don't just harm yourself by using it, you are harming others by proliferating its use, because by using it, you are encouraging others to use it too.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#36

Post by acgIssues » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

thisisit wrote: post #13

justinzollars wrote: post #4

I think the questions were also horrible. Watching two days of testimony it seemed only Congresswoman Dingell from Michigan had any grasp of how tracking technology works. My big takeaway is that we need more engineers in congress.

Or maybe more engineers becoming aides or staff to these politicians?

Well yeah, engineers should participate; not only as senators.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#37

Post by common_ » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #14

""" Zuckerberg reluctantly acknowledged that Facebook gathers information on people who aren't signed up for Facebook for what he said were "security purposes." """ That's a pretty disingenuous way to phrase Zuckerberg's response to a question of whether Facebook uses cookie tracking for logged-out users. Which of course it does, and it's of course used for security purposes; one has to be able to unify sessions from…

This isn't just basic cookie tracking. They have an actual profile on you, without your consent, with the people who have you in their address book and even potentially your purchasing habits, from the data they purchase from data brokers like Datalogix. They maintain this profile on you separately from other users, and they make immediate use of it if you create an account.

That's why it's called a shadow profile.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#38

Post by ynniv » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

Arnt wrote: post #28

gsich wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. There is no need to be able to do this.

Please elaborate.

A competent adversary won't carry cookies between sessions, so there is no security afforded by it. These cookies are solely to track the general population.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#39

Post by gsich » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

Arnt wrote: post #28

gsich wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. There is no need to be able to do this.

Please elaborate.

This is not a security feature you should rely on solely. Anyone who wants to stuff with multiple accounts, can circumvent this easily. So this is not a security issue. It is for tracking people, first and foremost.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#40

Post by blakesterz » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #14

""" Zuckerberg reluctantly acknowledged that Facebook gathers information on people who aren't signed up for Facebook for what he said were "security purposes." """ That's a pretty disingenuous way to phrase Zuckerberg's response to a question of whether Facebook uses cookie tracking for logged-out users. Which of course it does, and it's of course used for security purposes; one has to be able to unify sessions from…

Though it seems like it would be ok to say "ONE of the reasons we do this is security" because it really does seem like they can get some decent security stuff out of doing some of the things they do. It's probably not the primary purpose though, more like a happy accident?

Though I'd guess for people who don't follow any of this close (like the vast majority of people) hearing "this will make you safe" probably works quite well, and that's why he's told to say these things.