clicked on the comments for the link here just to see all the "it's essentially the same thing here in the US!" posts and I was not disappointed. (or I was, depending on how you look at it)
China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
51–60 of 602 posts
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#52China is doing this explicitly, but the West has been doing this implicitly for a while. Doxxing people with the "wrong" opinion and emailing their employers, friends, etc. I pretty regularly see if on Facebook where someone says something and their post or a screenshot of their post is shared hundreds of thousands of times with test that says "make this person famous". To be clear people should be called out for big…
There is a massive divide between private citizens harassing and bulling one another and governments wielding a monopoly on force outlawing and punishing dessent against the ruling class. You can sue someone for attacking you online if they cause provable financial or social distress. Go try suing the CCP in China for not providing freedom of speech and see how that unexplained disappearance treats you.
Nobody who is doxxed has a travel ban.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Woah, there's a difference between an "internet lynch mob" doing it and the state doing it!
The state does do it. It's called a criminal record which is strikingly easy to obtain in the U.S. which has a law for everything imaginable. If you've ever had any kind of criminal activity, ever, even from something dumb in your youth, the United States has a log of it, which employers use to discriminate against that person. Forever. It doesn't go away. The "miscreant" is then forced either into a life of crime, w…
Do you even need a criminal record to end up on the No Fly List (or the less consequential terrorist watch list)?
I think it is only really different in scale.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#54China is doing this explicitly, but the West has been doing this implicitly for a while. Doxxing people with the "wrong" opinion and emailing their employers, friends, etc. I pretty regularly see if on Facebook where someone says something and their post or a screenshot of their post is shared hundreds of thousands of times with test that says "make this person famous". To be clear people should be called out for big…
Sorry to sound condescending but your post is one of things people dislike about the internet too - what about-ism. This is just sweeping everything under the rug by using the logic - "this is bad but what about x?" It seems as if every issue in the world needs to be discussed and solved at once or not at all.
So, can we please stop equating doxxing with a government effort and trying to pass it of as being nearly the same or part of an arc because it is not.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#55To be fair we ban people with felony convictions from huge swathes of jobs, formally or informally, even if the crime happened decades ago. Also, good luck finding a place to live legally if you've been convicted of a sex crime.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#56China is doing this explicitly, but the West has been doing this implicitly for a while. Doxxing people with the "wrong" opinion and emailing their employers, friends, etc. I pretty regularly see if on Facebook where someone says something and their post or a screenshot of their post is shared hundreds of thousands of times with test that says "make this person famous". To be clear people should be called out for big…
While what you say is certainly true in specific cases (ie. the Facebook mob example), there is nothing in the West at an institutional level that compares to the ambitions of the Chinese Social Credit system.
Also, how come every time an article is posted about something Orwellian the PRC is doing, the comments are packed with whataboutism fallacies? "Yea, but look at what's happening here in the West!" It happens so frequently and consistently that it must be a quirk of the HN audience...or something more suspiciously intentional.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#57To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'
The caste system to me means to put people in the position of a caste on purpose. Just like the younger brothers in feudal europe were second class ... so a prince might just kill his older brother. Or literally enslaving countries wholesale as untouchables (the name being an improvement over beatables, I guess). I have a hunch that caste is cognate with castrate, but it's inexplicably "uncertain" as many such terrible topics are, and indeed it's more nuanced: e.g. castrum is linked in the wiki (think casa). It makes sense via separate<enclosure<cover<layer ... it's much more complicated then that though :/
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#58From http://www.collective-evolution.com/2017/10/26/black-mirror-... "You won’t be eligible for … positions in public office … social security and welfare … senior level positions in the food and drug sector … sleep in a bed in overnight trains … higher-starred hotels and restaurants … Your children … won’t be allowed to attend more expensive private schools … We have made extreme advancements in health care because…
The CCP is not interested in progress, its interested in maintaining permanent, absolute power at any cost.
That's not really true. Progress and upward economic development increase the faith of the public and the Communist Party rank-and-file in the Communist Party leadership. The Communist Party leadership has a strong incentive to promote growth.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#59Truly a dystopia. I hope someday citizens rebel against this nightmare
They are
> The number of annual protests has grown steadily since the early 1990s, from approximately 8700 “mass group incidents” in 1993[1] to over 87,000 in 2005.[2] In 2006, the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences estimated the number of annual mass incidents to exceed 90,000, and Chinese sociology professor Sun Liping estimated 180,000 incidents in 2010.[3][4] Mass incidents are defined broadly as "planned or impromptu gathering that forms because of internal contradictions", and can include public speeches or demonstrations, physical clashes, public airings of grievances, and other group behaviors that are seen as disrupting social stability.[5]
However
> Despite the increase in protests, some scholars have argued that they may not pose an existential threat to Communist Party rule because they lack “connective tissue;” the preponderance of protests in China are aimed at local-level officials, and only a select few dissident movements seek systemic change.
Who knows how it will play out in the long run, especially with the looming demographic problems of their aging population.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#60The thing that worries me most about the autocracy in China is that all of these Orwellian measures would actually work and then would be pointed out as an example to abandon our civil liberties in favor of a system that may be big brotherly but at least "your kids will always be safe, never be close to any bad person" (By We I'm referring to Democracies). It may also be a uniquely Chinese thing too though. China has…
You can also bring up japan as a counter-example. It's even safer and cleaner & it's still a democracy!