Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts • Hacker News Board

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#51

Post by slap_shot » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

icc97 wrote: post #17

2aa07e2 wrote: post #2

> In April of 2017, Google’s Technology Stafﬁng Management team was instructed by Alogna to immediately cancel all Level 3 (0-5 years experience) software engineering interviews with every single applicant who was not either female, Black, or Hispanic and to purge entirely any applications by non-diverse employees from the hiring pipeline. Plaintiff refused to comply with this request. Good for him. Google is now exc…

Do you seriously think that Google is going to stop hiring white men? What is claimed sounds like a completely crass method. Whether you like Google or not they typically do things in a fairly data driven method even with their hiring. It is also blatant discrimination that as others claim would be fairly easy to prove in court. This would be stupid. For Google to be both crass and stupid seems unlikely.

Where does OP every say that he thinks Google is going to stop hiring white men?

There's an obvious case of discrimination and OP said he no longer views Google as a dream job.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#52

Post by linkmotif » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

icc97 wrote: post #17

2aa07e2 wrote: post #2

> In April of 2017, Google’s Technology Stafﬁng Management team was instructed by Alogna to immediately cancel all Level 3 (0-5 years experience) software engineering interviews with every single applicant who was not either female, Black, or Hispanic and to purge entirely any applications by non-diverse employees from the hiring pipeline. Plaintiff refused to comply with this request. Good for him. Google is now exc…

Do you seriously think that Google is going to stop hiring white men? What is claimed sounds like a completely crass method. Whether you like Google or not they typically do things in a fairly data driven method even with their hiring. It is also blatant discrimination that as others claim would be fairly easy to prove in court. This would be stupid. For Google to be both crass and stupid seems unlikely.

> Do you seriously think that Google is going to stop hiring white men?

What kind of question is that? Maybe you should rethink it. Why would being discriminated against like this make me feel better if maybe some other white man gets a job? What are we fungible?

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#53

Post by beingrealistic » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #23

hunta2097 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have recently left tenure at a large telecoms company in the UK. They definitely had a practice of encouraging female hires. Even if they weren't the best fit for the role. Don't get me wrong, I am not approaching this in a sexist way - on the contrary I have worked with excellent and poor colleagues of both sexes. I think it diminishes the accomplishments of genuinely great minority/female employees to have this p…

Except that’s not what we get right now. We have qualified women driven away from the profession because of all the unwanted attention and hurdles that come along wit being a minority at work. In my profession (corporate law) we get a balanced gender distribution of applicants at the entry level. But that’s because of aggressive efforts to recruit women, as well as lawsuits, in the 1980s and 1990s, to counteract the…

you missed the biggest factor in explaining the balanced gender distribution - more women are qualified for and apply for corporate law jobs.

the vast majority of software engineering jobs have pleasant working environments than a typical corporate law job - "unwanted attention and hurdles" doesn't work as an explanation.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#54

Post by richmarr » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

hunta2097 wrote: post #13

samfisher83 wrote: post #5

If this is true and the recruiter has emails to back up his case it should be a pretty easy case to win. According to the the rules: Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which makes it illegal to discriminate against a person on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. It should also be a massive fine.

I have recently left tenure at a large telecoms company in the UK. They definitely had a practice of encouraging female hires. Even if they weren't the best fit for the role. Don't get me wrong, I am not approaching this in a sexist way - on the contrary I have worked with excellent and poor colleagues of both sexes. I think it diminishes the accomplishments of genuinely great minority/female employees to have this p…

> I think it diminishes the accomplishments of genuinely great minority/female employees to have this policy.

This view is contradicted by the weight of evidence for unconscious bias in hiring.

[Edit] Although obviously I don't know exactly what their policy was... maybe they were hiring badly, but the evidence suggests that people (of both sexes) discount the abilities of people in gender-incongruous roles.

> I would prefer identity to be neutralized somehow during the hiring process. The best person for the job, no matter your sex, colour, creed, disability.

I agree with this (disclaimer: this is what my startup does) but my reasoning is that quotas and other active methods (a) generate resentment, even though they have been shown to raise the bar not lower it, and (b) require a lot of study to determine the 'correct' targets... and even then it's a gamble... so are clumsy and expensive to get right.

It's a complicated topic though, not well suited to sweeping statements.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#55

Post by gwbas1c » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

I suspect that lawsuits like this will show that trying to artificially influence diversity through hiring practices is an incorrect approach. When I'm in a hiring position, it's not like we sit around a table and say, "we'd prefer the white male." We just don't have enough women and minorities in the hiring pool to begin with.

The problem is that there aren't enough women and minorities entering our field. We just can't decide to hire more women and minorities when there aren't any to hire. Getting women and minorities to choose tech as a career isn't something that I honestly don't know how to solve. Ultimately, our employees reflect who's in our hiring pool.

The same happens in other fields, too. In pediatrics, there aren't a lot of men entering medical school, so there is a desire to hire more men.

Anyway, getting back to the original topic; I suspect there's more going on than we realize. I'm curious about how much this reflects Google actual policies versus a decision of a middle manager.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#56

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

samfisher83 wrote: post #5

If this is true and the recruiter has emails to back up his case it should be a pretty easy case to win. According to the the rules: Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which makes it illegal to discriminate against a person on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. It should also be a massive fine.

[deleted]

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#57

Post by rvshchwl » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:18 PM UTC

2aa07e2 wrote: post #2

> In April of 2017, Google’s Technology Stafﬁng Management team was instructed by Alogna to immediately cancel all Level 3 (0-5 years experience) software engineering interviews with every single applicant who was not either female, Black, or Hispanic and to purge entirely any applications by non-diverse employees from the hiring pipeline. Plaintiff refused to comply with this request. Good for him. Google is now exc…

Google is the first big company that I actually rejected after receiving an offer from them. I had a really bad experience, and just felt like the company was looking for things I am much more qualified from.

I was interviewed by engineers who were all just recent college grads, no managers, tech leads, or anyone I felt were probably more qualified to interview me. The environment felt toxic. Most people I talked to looked unclean, like they just got out of bed to work. Had red eyes like they were tired. And the workplace was just not as clean as I was hoping. There were a set of dirty plates in the conference room I was interviewed in, and no one bothered to remove them the entire time.

From people I have talked to, my experience was pretty unique, and most people have had good interviews there. But even as an outlier, I don't like the chance of it being exactly like my experience. Things like this really put stuff in perspective for me though. I still went through the entire process, but in the end, rejected the offer. I wouldn't want to work in an environment like Google's, it feels toxic, and engineers feel like they are overworking themselves to death.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#58

Post by jmull » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:18 PM UTC

2aa07e2 wrote: post #2

> In April of 2017, Google’s Technology Stafﬁng Management team was instructed by Alogna to immediately cancel all Level 3 (0-5 years experience) software engineering interviews with every single applicant who was not either female, Black, or Hispanic and to purge entirely any applications by non-diverse employees from the hiring pipeline. Plaintiff refused to comply with this request. Good for him. Google is now exc…

I'd just caution you not to buy in too much to the narrative presented by one side of a law suit.

You'll pretty much never see a more one-sided presentation of a situation. It may bear out or it may not.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#59

Post by decorator » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:19 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #23

hunta2097 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have recently left tenure at a large telecoms company in the UK. They definitely had a practice of encouraging female hires. Even if they weren't the best fit for the role. Don't get me wrong, I am not approaching this in a sexist way - on the contrary I have worked with excellent and poor colleagues of both sexes. I think it diminishes the accomplishments of genuinely great minority/female employees to have this p…

Except that’s not what we get right now. We have qualified women driven away from the profession because of all the unwanted attention and hurdles that come along wit being a minority at work. In my profession (corporate law) we get a balanced gender distribution of applicants at the entry level. But that’s because of aggressive efforts to recruit women, as well as lawsuits, in the 1980s and 1990s, to counteract the…

You can be sure of a counterfactual? Really.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#60

Post by burger_moon » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:19 PM UTC

It's interesting, in the time it took me to read through the comments this went from #4 to #33. The discussion isn't crude or a flame war, so why does it get flagged?