Priests are lucky bastards
Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)
51–59 of 59 posts
Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are not your thoughts. What is meant by the self being an illusion is that there is no thinker behind your thoughts, no entity in your brain that is the 'you'. Most people do not even realize they are constantly submerged in thought and/or dialogue with their 'inner voice'. That is not the real you though. If you've suffered some mental problems you can even have multiple thoughts in your conscious scope at once…
Nice summary. As another poster points out in this thread, this "witnessing" phase is not yet the fully Monty, nor is even the unitive consciousness phase that can come after that. The full non-self experience is beyond the no-ego experience. Which all probably sounds like mumbo-jumbo to someone who hasn't traveled the path.
You are right in that the ability to be beyond the thoughtstream is only the beginning.
You probably know all this, but I think with further inquiry and experience it is inevitable to come to the conclusion that there is no free will, it's just atoms dancing and vibrating and from that an elaborate interconnected mechanism rises. With no free will there is no doer or you as a person, it is simply the universe unfolding and these bodies are only 'pawns' reacting to stimuli or whatever variables these human biocomputers work on.
Us humans have the capacity for pretty advanced heuristics and we can become aware of the underlying mechanisms and the subconcsious, and through that awareness manipulate the system but that still forgoes any doers. I guess you could say they're revelations and be grateful you stumbled on them in this life.
We need to go deeper.
Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, pre Church committee secret CIA research is really applicable to the topic at hand.
How isn't it? Anyway, I agree with his comment but for a different reason: government "research" isn't historically trustworthy. Any psychedelics research sponsored by the government, directly or indirectly, is going to end up like marijuana research[0] and like research into alternative therapies[1]. Of course, they will continue coming up with opposite findings for drugs that lobbyists can profit from, like SSRI's.…
Before throwing around accusations like this, you might want to consider the evidence. For instance, how often has an FDA-approved drug been pulled because it was dangerous in unknown ways vs drugs which haven't been through the FDA? Conversely, how many home cures have been shown to be useless or even actively harmful?
I find it interesting that you are citing the study on homeopathy in such a gerrymandered way; first, it's not $2.5 billion just on yoga and meditation by any reasonable interpretation. Second, the major conclusion of the study is that virtually no holistic/homeopathic remedies have any health value above the placebo effect. Thirdly yoga and meditation haven't been found to be beneficial, they rather have not had conclusive results either way.
Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)
#54Priests are lucky bastards
Can you please not post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?
Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
How isn't it? Anyway, I agree with his comment but for a different reason: government "research" isn't historically trustworthy. Any psychedelics research sponsored by the government, directly or indirectly, is going to end up like marijuana research[0] and like research into alternative therapies[1]. Of course, they will continue coming up with opposite findings for drugs that lobbyists can profit from, like SSRI's.…
Before throwing around accusations like this, you might want to consider the evidence. For instance, how often has an FDA-approved drug been pulled because it was dangerous in unknown ways vs drugs which haven't been through the FDA? Conversely, how many home cures have been shown to be useless or even actively harmful? I find it interesting that you are citing the study on homeopathy in such a gerrymandered way; fir…
You're telling me to consider the evidence? That's funny. Let's just ignore how the US government has been fudging studies for decades to support whatever agendas suited them, whether it be pro-wheat industry, pro-sugar industry, pro-pharmaceutical industry, the list goes on and on. I could spend a day sitting here listing examples of great Uncle Sam and their "studies" and "research". Seriously, I thought people on HN were just a little bit smarter than this.
Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)
#56>The Tibetan Zen Buddhist monk Chogyam Trongpa It's written Chögyam Trungpa. Trungpa was Vajrayana school Buddhist. "Tibetan Zen Buddhism" does not exist. I'm sure there are individual Tibetans who are Zen Buddhists, but there is no Zen tradition in Tibet. Trungpa was also alcoholic, womanizer, sexually abused his students, cocaine user, ... and was able to get away with it because it was all 'crazy wisdom'. Zen and…
Where are you quoting from? I didn't see anywhere in the article "Tibetan Zen Buddhist monk Chogyam Trongpa" was mentioned.
Either I commented on the wrong tread and you were the only person commenting who read the article, or they changed the link.
https://qz.com/1196408/scientists-studying-psilocybin-accide...
Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nice summary. As another poster points out in this thread, this "witnessing" phase is not yet the fully Monty, nor is even the unitive consciousness phase that can come after that. The full non-self experience is beyond the no-ego experience. Which all probably sounds like mumbo-jumbo to someone who hasn't traveled the path.
You are right in that the ability to be beyond the thoughtstream is only the beginning. You probably know all this, but I think with further inquiry and experience it is inevitable to come to the conclusion that there is no free will, it's just atoms dancing and vibrating and from that an elaborate interconnected mechanism rises. With no free will there is no doer or you as a person, it is simply the universe unfoldi…
I find it useful to allow for the possibility that your entire model of reality (including such "obvious" features as space and time, let alone biology) will evolve on the path. Some traditions maintain that this is all a dream. What might this be pointing to?
Of course, it can be very hard to avoid thinking "sure, my model will evolve, but those things will still be there." Our metaphysics is very hard to give up!
Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is also a whole Tibetan teaching that evolved from ritual cannabilism that shares its roots with practices from India. That particular teaching evolved to use visualizations, and the one being offered for sacrifice in those visualization is the practitioner and not someone else. When done that way, it's an extreme, but beautiful teaching relating to impermanence and the Bodhisattva ideal. The lotus growing from…
Have you ever been to a Tibetan temple? The walls are filled with detailed, vivid drawings of their "masters" doing horrific things to them.
No I have not. I am not surprised though. Content is endless, and shadow conntent is endless.
It sounds surprising, I think, because the Western, or perhaps popular view of spirituality is one of idealization. Focusing excessively on Light is as problematic as focusing excessively in Shadow.
I have a reprint of one of the mandalas to Vajrayogini on my personal altar. Most of the imagery and iconography will evoke the reaction you described. At the bottom is the most wrathful form of Vajrayogini, naked and all black with fangs, an intense, fiery aura, standing on a corpse. She holds a butchering knife in one hand, and a tantric staff (with three skulls) in the other. Various entrails being eaten by various animals. Yet the top one depicts a peaceful Vajrayogini, reposing in a meditational posture.
Both are Vajrayogini. What is not apparent is how any of this is an act of compassion. The middle Vajrayogini is red and she holds a cup made from severing the top of someone's skull. There is blood in it. How is _that_ an act of compassion? Isn't that just a depiction of evil and corruption? And Tibetan Buddhist will take this depiction as a yidam, ritually become this diety/Buddha. Why would anyone do that? Why do I have that on my altar?
Vajrayogini takes the most horrific karma and spiritual poisons and drinks it. She is called the trauma goddess for that reason. All the horror and abuses one might experience in this life and in past lived, she takes and drinks. And because she is a full Buddha, that karms burns and dies within her. In many ways, it is an extreme form of empathy, yet at the same time, the Buddha nature remains unstained.
Her two wrathful forms looks horrific because the pain and trauama she takes on are that horrific. That is why she is depicted in those wrathful forms. She enters fearlessly into your hell to give you the chance to awaken and to heal.
And this is why she is appealing to some people.
I have never set someone's broken bone or worked as an EMT or a nurse. Yet when I hear stories from them, it is like this. Giving care to the person even when really horrible things happen to them. I am not one of those Japanese cleaners who clean a houses after someone dies, or that Austrailian woman who clean hoarder's houses after they die. They clean away the pain, when no one else will do it. It is like that.
Are there abuses? Yup, there are. Is it excusable? No. And yet, there is a lor more going on than what is apparent.
Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
What about philanthropists who are very poor? E.g. A homeless person giving you his last good pair of gloves because you look to be freezing?
Huh, that's a good point. I've never met anyone like that though, so my worldview is limited, I guess.
I won't start a philosophical debate on the topic. However, I can tell you that I have met such people while I was growing up poor. I hope that at the very least, I can shift your worldview a bit.