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Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)

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Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)

#21

Post by nabla9 »

hosh wrote: post #20
nabla9 wrote: post #15

>The Tibetan Zen Buddhist monk Chogyam Trongpa It's written Chögyam Trungpa. Trungpa was Vajrayana school Buddhist. "Tibetan Zen Buddhism" does not exist. I'm sure there are individual Tibetans who are Zen Buddhists, but there is no Zen tradition in Tibet. Trungpa was also alcoholic, womanizer, sexually abused his students, cocaine user, ... and was able to get away with it because it was all 'crazy wisdom'. Zen and…

Chris Wallis, author of Tantra Illuminated had written to clarify what makes someone a "tantric master", specifically, one is a master of self . I think that is a useful distinction when you are searching for guidance. Another way to look at it is something I've heard Adyashanti (another teacher) spoke about in an interview on batgap.com -- someone's relationship with their teacher is often a reflection of of their r…

There is whole Tibetan sutra with instructions of how to have sex with prepubescent girls. After their first menstrual cycle they become impure and don't help monk in his spiritual journey.

If you have religion and status, you can always find ways to rationalize fucking around as spiritual development.

I have respect for Buddhism in general and I have practiced meditation with a teacher 20 years. I understand the need to have a teacher and the need for guidance, but it's human nature for people to abuse others when given too much authority.

Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)

#22

Post by nostrademons »

jotm wrote: post #9

I can show you the self is not an illusion - ask those people to give you all of their possessions to someone else, the poor or some charity. Suddenly, they'll care about their well being above others and their eternal connection to everyone else is shattered.

Does that mean that folks who do give a significant portion of their wealth to charity are evidence that the self is an illusion?

Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)

#23

Post by Raphmedia »

jotm wrote: post #9

I can show you the self is not an illusion - ask those people to give you all of their possessions to someone else, the poor or some charity. Suddenly, they'll care about their well being above others and their eternal connection to everyone else is shattered.

What about philanthropists who are very poor? E.g. A homeless person giving you his last good pair of gloves because you look to be freezing?

Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)

#25

Post by jotm »

westiseast wrote: post #18
jotm wrote: post #9

I can show you the self is not an illusion - ask those people to give you all of their possessions to someone else, the poor or some charity. Suddenly, they'll care about their well being above others and their eternal connection to everyone else is shattered.

It’s mistaken (and somewhat sad!) to take a cynical attitude like that given the implications of the research. The most exciting part of these type of studies is the ability to take depressive people and ‘kick’ them out of the cognitive ruts they are in. Those cognitive ruts are often world-views, thought structures and learned behaviours from childhood or their parents which constantly reinforce that the sufferer is…

Wait, so the idea is to see other people for "who they are"... but they won't do the same. It sure can "restore faith in humanity" and yourself, but what happens when you get hit with a dose of reality? That everyone struggles... individually. And most people don't actually care about you. Back to depression it is?

Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)

#26

Post by charlieflowers »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #4
WalterSear wrote: post #2

The original article's title is misleading.

Suggested Title: Study with small sample size suggests that brief drug-induced mystical experiences change people over time, leading them to report better moods, heightened altruism and forgiveness, more closeness with others, and a sense of connection six months later

Maybe even, "Here's a reasonable sounding, but unproven, possible explanation for why some people report that certain drugs give them life-changing experiences."

And the TLDR: The part of your brain that some claim "invents your identity" is temporarily shut off, leading you to see alternate possibilities.

Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)

#27

Post by kup0 »

nabla9 wrote: post #15

>The Tibetan Zen Buddhist monk Chogyam Trongpa It's written Chögyam Trungpa. Trungpa was Vajrayana school Buddhist. "Tibetan Zen Buddhism" does not exist. I'm sure there are individual Tibetans who are Zen Buddhists, but there is no Zen tradition in Tibet. Trungpa was also alcoholic, womanizer, sexually abused his students, cocaine user, ... and was able to get away with it because it was all 'crazy wisdom'. Zen and…

What do you think of this proposal that, at least for a short time, there indeed was what could be considered Tibetan Zen? https://tricycle.org/magazine/lost-tradition-tibetan-zen/

Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)

#28

Post by jotm »

Raphmedia wrote: post #23
jotm wrote: post #9

I can show you the self is not an illusion - ask those people to give you all of their possessions to someone else, the poor or some charity. Suddenly, they'll care about their well being above others and their eternal connection to everyone else is shattered.

What about philanthropists who are very poor? E.g. A homeless person giving you his last good pair of gloves because you look to be freezing?

Huh, that's a good point. I've never met anyone like that though, so my worldview is limited, I guess.

Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)

#29

Post by jotm »

nostrademons wrote: post #22
jotm wrote: post #9

I can show you the self is not an illusion - ask those people to give you all of their possessions to someone else, the poor or some charity. Suddenly, they'll care about their well being above others and their eternal connection to everyone else is shattered.

Does that mean that folks who do give a significant portion of their wealth to charity are evidence that the self is an illusion?

Well, I got nothing... They're good people I guess? I'll never know, mushrooms are illegal and I can't get my hands on them.

Re: Researchers giving psilocybin to religious leaders (2017)

#30

Post by jessaustin »

jotm wrote: post #29
nostrademons wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean that folks who do give a significant portion of their wealth to charity are evidence that the self is an illusion?

Well, I got nothing... They're good people I guess? I'll never know, mushrooms are illegal and I can't get my hands on them.

They grow wild in many locations... look around among the trees at the edges of fields where cattle graze. The first time a good friend of mine had them, that's where that good friend found them. b^) Be sure you've got the right ones, since many mushrooms are poisonous in a bad way.
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