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EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

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Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#51

Post by iamatworknow »

5ilv3r wrote: post #48
iamatworknow wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Does anyone else have any tips/tricks/ideas here? The trick is to not worry about it so much. In fact, I'd say that worrying and looking nervous would make it more likely that you would be searched. I live on the US/Canadian border (on the US side) and go over probably 2 or 3 times per month. I regularly drive from New York state to Ottawa (going through Canadian customs), then fly into the US (through US customs) a…

Looking at the list of people represented, I'm lead to believe there is a large chance of racial profiling being involved.

Absolutely a possibility.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#52

Post by mindslight »

ironix wrote: post #38

I'm going on a trip to Canada within the next month, from the US, as a US citizen. I want to be let into Canada without issue, so am taking a burner smartphone connected to a non-critical gmail account that is plausibly-maybe my "real" personal one. But not really. The maximum threat to me is detention, or more likely, refused entry. If I am asked to unlock the device, I will. Crossing back into the US, I am less con…

> I realize trying to subvert any Canadian border search is not a good idea

Erm, I don't see how you'd be "subverting" the search. The purpose of a border search is to examine what you're bringing into the country. If you smoke marijuana at home but (prudently) don't try to bring some into Canada, that isn't subverting their search.

The latest time I returned to into the USSA (a while ago), I had an old laptop that I zeroed out the hard drive and physically moved it out of the computer. I figured this would leave the thugs with less justification to steal my things. However, I lucked out and was not actually subjected to an invasive inspection.

Also, I don't know what you've previously used this burner phone for, but any flash filesystem won't actually erase things when you delete them.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#53

Post by CWuestefeld »

5ilv3r wrote: post #48
iamatworknow wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Does anyone else have any tips/tricks/ideas here? The trick is to not worry about it so much. In fact, I'd say that worrying and looking nervous would make it more likely that you would be searched. I live on the US/Canadian border (on the US side) and go over probably 2 or 3 times per month. I regularly drive from New York state to Ottawa (going through Canadian customs), then fly into the US (through US customs) a…

Looking at the list of people represented, I'm lead to believe there is a large chance of racial profiling being involved.

I'm lead to believe there is a large chance of racial profiling being involved.

On whose part? The border patrol, so that the pool of potential plaintiffs is large? Or by the EFF and ACLU, choosing a diversity of plaintiffs to represent?

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#54

Post by curiousgal »

ironix wrote: post #38

I'm going on a trip to Canada within the next month, from the US, as a US citizen. I want to be let into Canada without issue, so am taking a burner smartphone connected to a non-critical gmail account that is plausibly-maybe my "real" personal one. But not really. The maximum threat to me is detention, or more likely, refused entry. If I am asked to unlock the device, I will. Crossing back into the US, I am less con…

$100 says nothing is going to happen. This is selection bias at its best, as you only hear about the people getting their devices searched not the ones crossing easily. The chances of this happening to you are slim to none.

I am not saying no one should be worried, I am just saying OP should not.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#55

Post by greymeister »

The US extends the border-search exception to anywhere within 100 miles of an airport with international fights, meaning something like 60% of the US lives within a "border zone" as most international airports are close to dense population centers.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#56

Post by djrogers »

greymeister wrote: post #55

The US extends the border-search exception to anywhere within 100 miles of an airport with international fights, meaning something like 60% of the US lives within a "border zone" as most international airports are close to dense population centers.

This is tangential, and I'm sure you didn't mean to, but you've come close to implying that a CBP agent can stop, search, and detain anyone within 100 miles of an International airport. That's not the case, it would have to be someone who actually crossed the border in to the USA.

That said, and I can' believe I have to make this disclaimer as it feels about as obvious as saying I'm against torturing kittens, but I am against the overreaching searches the EFF and ACLU are suing over here.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#57

Post by wonderous »

greymeister wrote: post #55

The US extends the border-search exception to anywhere within 100 miles of an airport with international fights, meaning something like 60% of the US lives within a "border zone" as most international airports are close to dense population centers.

Despite federal law allowing certain federal agents to conduct search and seizures within 100 miles of the border into the interior of the United States,[5] the Supreme Court has clearly and repeatedly confirmed that the border search exception applies only at international borders and their functional equivalent (such as international airports).[1] [2]

[1] https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=693326075362777...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Martinez-Fu...

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#58

Post by zionic »

natch wrote: post #43
abtinf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago, I considered starting regular donations to the EFF. Unfortunately, I did not realize they had taken pro position on state intervention and control of the Internet, a concept generally described with the orwellian phrase "net neutrality." This position directly contradicts much of the their advocacy that I wanted to support.

I am glad you commented, so that others could rebut your misguided position. It's not usually kosher to comment on voting here, but I think in this case it's worth making an exception to help keep you readable: I un-did my downvote of you because I hope that others who, out of innocent ignorance perhaps, currently share your position, will be able to read your comment (I don't want you to go to full invisibility) and…

While there is potentially an argument to me made that a hostile government could use this expanded power to "regulate" for some nefarious purpose, you have to actually go that far for it to be an argument.

For example {hypothetical} "Net Neutrality gives alphabet-soup-agency a form of super-DMCA that I don't trust them to have"

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#59

Post by bo1024 »

meri_dian wrote: post #6

If they can search your bags without a warrant at the border, why can't they search your phone or laptop? Edit: Contraband can be both physical and digital. If the government can conduct searches for physical contraband then searches for digital contraband in certain circumstances like border crossings seems reasonable.

One big difference is that digital searches aren't limited to stuff you're bringing with you -- they want to search your entire past history in terms of email, social media, etc.

Another big difference is the purpose of the search in the first place. We search for physically dangerous items to protect people, or unlawful items for customs reasons. The case for physically dangerous data and unlawful data is much less clear cut.

The real reason for searching your devices seems to be related to profiling you as a person in order to determine if they want to let you in, which is a completely different purpose than searching your bags.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#60

Post by Karunamon »

abtinf wrote: post #25
aey wrote: post #4

Donate to the eff. They will send you an awesome hoodie.

A few years ago, I considered starting regular donations to the EFF. Unfortunately, I did not realize they had taken pro position on state intervention and control of the Internet, a concept generally described with the orwellian phrase "net neutrality." This position directly contradicts much of the their advocacy that I wanted to support.

Please reread what the FCC's "net neutrality" is, and specifically ask yourself how exactly those powers are a negative in any way. If the information you have in mind is nothing more than vague platitudes like "state intervention and control of the internet" you shouldn't be making decisions based on it.
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