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Drug Submarine Seized In Ecuador Is Huge Leap For Smugglers

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Re: Drug Submarine Seized In Ecuador Is Huge Leap For Smugglers

#51

Post by GFischer »

jws wrote: post #47
avar wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the U.S. yes, but this is in Ecuador. Such a company would operate wholly outside the U.S., and only sell the submarines in kit form, ready for assembly. Here's the full text of the law b.t.w.: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-110publ407/html/PLAW-110pu...

As soon as a sub comes into international waters the law applies. I see no reason why the interpretation of "conspiring" would be hindered by kit-form subs or sovereignty of the manufacturing location. If there was a thriving market for cargo submarines for non-covert haulage, maybe. I suppose if the shipyard owners don't do too many subs, don't travel internationally, and the country doesn't extradite to the United…

Erm... an US law applies in international waters? It's not like Ecuador will go to war with the US if the US decides to arbitrarily enforce their rules on the open waters, but Venezuela might... (I'd try Venezuela if I were a drug smuggler)

Edit: the US law intends to apply to vessels "without nationality", but I'm pretty sure the crew has a nationality which might want to object.

Most other nations would at least release a statement against such practices by the US (I know mine would, heck I'd draft it myself)

Re: Drug Submarine Seized In Ecuador Is Huge Leap For Smugglers

#52

Post by huherto »

avar wrote: post #45
jws wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is illegal under US law to use unregistered vessels to evade detection anywhere in the open ocean .[1] I'm pretty sure the US government would extend "conspiring" to include your smuggling yacht company's owner and employees. [1] http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-3598

In the U.S. yes, but this is in Ecuador. Such a company would operate wholly outside the U.S., and only sell the submarines in kit form, ready for assembly. Here's the full text of the law b.t.w.: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-110publ407/html/PLAW-110pu...

It will be really easy to follow the trail to see who is buying the submarines.

Re: Drug Submarine Seized In Ecuador Is Huge Leap For Smugglers

#53

Post by huherto »

shin_lao wrote: post #8
demallien wrote: post #3

That's the problem with wars - they lead to arms races.... The sooner western governments start looking into the development of safer recreational drugs (ie no worse than alcohol, and preferably with low dependence), the sooner we can get rid of drug lords, drug wars, and all the killing and suffering that goes with it. Stupid stupid stupid....

The problem is that you don't want more recreational drugs in your country. Alcohol is already a problem, so is tobacco, do we really want to add more? It's naive to believe that legalizing drugs will damage drug lords. They will continue to sell different kind of drugs, because whatever you legalize, there's going to be a market for different kind of substances; and they will simply flood the market with cheaper, no…

It will impact drug lords. They will probably move to other illegal activities and violence is likely to increase. Still it will eliminate a big incentive for people to choose a criminal life.

This is really becoming very serious. Today, we woke up by the noise of gun fire. They killed a police officer a few blocks from my house. A LOT of innocent people are being killed everyday. My 17 year old nephew and his dad were killed last week. And every week something new happens.

Re: Drug Submarine Seized In Ecuador Is Huge Leap For Smugglers

#54

Post by chc »

zokier wrote: post #32
stretchwithme wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

legalization itself would make drugs safer. half the problem with illegal drug safety is the inconsistency in potency. But when products are legal, brands develop that have an interest in delivering quality. And they have bank accounts. That guy in the alley really doesn't. If I remember correctly, I think there's even a chemical you can add to cocaine that prevents overdose. No real incentive to do that when its an…

A living customer is far more profitable even to drug lords than a dead one.

Drug lords are much like the big telecom companies in the US: They do want customers, but their product has steady enough growth that they don't mind burning a few customers if it's convenient to their business model. (See, for example, all the hate AT&T has gotten over its handling of iPhone customers.)

Re: Drug Submarine Seized In Ecuador Is Huge Leap For Smugglers

#55

Post by jws »

GFischer wrote: post #51
jws wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As soon as a sub comes into international waters the law applies. I see no reason why the interpretation of "conspiring" would be hindered by kit-form subs or sovereignty of the manufacturing location. If there was a thriving market for cargo submarines for non-covert haulage, maybe. I suppose if the shipyard owners don't do too many subs, don't travel internationally, and the country doesn't extradite to the United…

Erm... an US law applies in international waters? It's not like Ecuador will go to war with the US if the US decides to arbitrarily enforce their rules on the open waters, but Venezuela might... (I'd try Venezuela if I were a drug smuggler) Edit: the US law intends to apply to vessels "without nationality", but I'm pretty sure the crew has a nationality which might want to object. Most other nations would at least re…

Strange isn't it. And the crew can read that statement for 15 years while they "pay their debt to society".

I don't think this law has been used yet, at least it didn't make any news that I've seen. I expect there to be challenges and appeals the first time someone gets defended in court. Hopefully it will gut the law.

In case the back story is missing, the law was passed in reaction to semi-submersible smuggling boats that would travel in deep water and if confronted by US forces, the crew would just scuttle the boat and then wait for the coast guard or navy to rescue them. No evidence, no crime, plus now the task force has to return the crew they just rescued.

Re: Drug Submarine Seized In Ecuador Is Huge Leap For Smugglers

#56

Post by pavel_lishin »

randallsquared wrote: post #46
pavel_lishin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just enforce a death penalty for drug use? And maybe excessive parking tickets?

But who defines "excessive"? If we can define it as "1 ticket", that simplifies the whole process, since we can issue SWAT gear instead of ticket-writing paraphernalia to meter enforcement workers.

I think one ticket is fine. If you break the law once, you're likely to break it again. Kill off all the violators, and there's no lawbreakers.
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