Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 90 posts

Re: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID

#51

Post by SwellJoe »

jubabuba wrote: post #36
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having to deal with something like this at the same time as being evicted and losing your mother is very sad, but that's not an excuse. It's the perfect excuse. Once you have no registered address it is only a matter of time before you gain the accumulated 'benefits' that come with having no status at all. Essentially you become an un-person, and your life is just about forfeit. [1] I take it that you have not expe…

I was homeless for two years living out of my car. I used a mail forwarding service to maintain proof of residence and get id and stay registered somewhere.

Think back to when you signed up. What did you need? When I signed up, I had to fill out USPS form 1583, and show two forms of government identification (I used drivers license and passport; the list of accepted ID for this form is strict and non-obvious). My girlfriend couldn't be added to my account when she started traveling with me because she didn't have the second acceptable form of ID.

Now, imagine you also had to choose between your next meal and paying your mail forwarding service bill.

I live in an RV and travel mostly full-time, and I use a mail forwarding service, myself...but, even with that, it's sometimes a pain in the ass to deal with the government. And, it's also not all that cheap. I spent about $400 last year on mail forwarding for my personal account, and about the same for the business.

Look, I don't want to diminish your experience here. You've been there, to some degree, and I'm glad you got out of homelessness. But, just because you've shared some of the experiences of being homeless, it doesn't mean everyone who deals with this can follow the path you followed successfully.

Re: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID

#52

Post by maxerickson »

jacquesm wrote: post #42
koolba wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She didn't have ID when she was evicted which means she had plenty of time to get one. If she had a license/state ID and answered the expiration mailer she would have had one.

No, it means that she went from a situation in which she still had plenty of time to get one into a situation where she suddenly had no time at all anymore. > If she had a license/state ID and answered the expiration mailer she would have had one. That assumes she had one to begin with. I know lots of Americans that don't even have a passport or driving license. Anyway, you're a cold one to stick to your theme of vic…

This is essentially where I was coming from. In the article, we meet her in crisis. That she maybe could have renewed a license prior to being evicted doesn't help her any.

Re: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID

#53

Post by jacquesm »

throwanem wrote: post #46
Avshalom wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What would motivate someone to intentionally prevent poor people from helping themselves? A theology that holds that god rewards the just and thus the poor must be so because they're wicked and/or a fucked up reading of the phrase "the poor will always be with you" A desire to 'prove' an economic philosophy that the poor brought it on themselves by creating a self perpetuating spiral of doom and then pointing to peo…

Yes. This is why you find people of Christian faith volunteering to...you know what, never mind. I wish I lived in a world as simple as the one you seem to.

Volunteering is not limited to people of Christian faith.

Re: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID

#54

Post by jacquesm »

SwellJoe wrote: post #51
jubabuba wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was homeless for two years living out of my car. I used a mail forwarding service to maintain proof of residence and get id and stay registered somewhere.

Think back to when you signed up. What did you need? When I signed up, I had to fill out USPS form 1583, and show two forms of government identification (I used drivers license and passport; the list of accepted ID for this form is strict and non-obvious). My girlfriend couldn't be added to my account when she started traveling with me because she didn't have the second acceptable form of ID. Now, imagine you also ha…

In a nutshell: it is very hard to see privilege from the point of view of the privileged.

Polish proverb: I thought I was as low as I could get and then I heard knocking from below.

Re: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID

#55

Post by kej »

SwellJoe wrote: post #30

I've volunteered on homelessness issues over the past few years, and many of my friends are homeless or have been homeless in recent memory. This is one of the most frustrating and pointlessly cruel aspects of the society we've built (among many frustrating and pointlessly cruel aspects). I can sum up just how evil it is with one anecdote: One night a few years ago, I got a frantic message from a friend on facebook,…

To piggyback on your example, I volunteered at an organization who were working with someone who had recently been released from prison but had no ID and no access to any supporting documents.

The organization spent months going back and forth with the state to get an ID issued. The state was sure he was the guy who had done the crime and should spend years locked up, but wouldn't confirm he was the same person for ID purposes. It was maddening just watching the process unfold.

Re: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID

#56

Post by jacquesm »

throwanem wrote: post #44
typomatic wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the situation described in the article which seems to be engineered to simply keep people in the hole once they through misfortune or carelessness slip up. It's sad too that it should come to volunteers to correct such situations, you'd think that the government would really like its citizens to be able to take part in society rather than to be pushed even further into the fringes. You'll find that Americans really…

Yes. That explains why Americans give up time, money, effort, and care, to help other Americans back up out of the hole our government does not give a damn if it puts them in.

Which is really nice, but not very effective and besides should not be necessary in the first place. Systemic failure and bureaucracy can't be effectively countered by relying on volunteers. In fact, the article is a good illustration of how ineffective this is.

Re: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID

#57

Post by rayiner »

throwanem wrote: post #46
Avshalom wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What would motivate someone to intentionally prevent poor people from helping themselves? A theology that holds that god rewards the just and thus the poor must be so because they're wicked and/or a fucked up reading of the phrase "the poor will always be with you" A desire to 'prove' an economic philosophy that the poor brought it on themselves by creating a self perpetuating spiral of doom and then pointing to peo…

Yes. This is why you find people of Christian faith volunteering to...you know what, never mind. I wish I lived in a world as simple as the one you seem to.

I mean, religion isn't a homogeneous thing. There are folks like the ones in the article, for sure, but there are also ones who buy into the whole gospel of prosperity thing.

Re: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID

#58

Post by maxerickson »

rayiner wrote: post #50

I lost my wallet last year and simultaneously needed to get a passport on short notice for a business trip. I borrowed $200 bucks from my dad to pay the expedited passport fee, bought an Amtrak ticket with saved CC information to get to the same-day passport office in Philadelphia, and proved my identity to the passport office with copies of government employee ID cards and my law licenses. Even then I dealt with adm…

Or even just parents that are alive.

I needed a birth certificate a few years ago and the expedient option was to have my mom (who still lives in my hometown) request one.

Re: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID

#59

Post by pdkl95 »

koolba wrote: post #38
maxerickson wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you're still at the same address (which she was) She was evicted from her previous address!

But until she was evicted she was there and thus could have renewed her ID through the mail prior to this ordeal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

The real world is full of a lot more variance than you seem to believe. It is possible to do everything possible within your power correctly and still fall victim to this kind of misfortune.

You're trying to force the world to fit your model. Instead, you need to fix your model to allow for non-100% ID coverage, because reality is always going to have complications, errors, mistakes, and unexpected interactions.

Re: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID

#60

Post by Avshalom »

throwanem wrote: post #46
Avshalom wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What would motivate someone to intentionally prevent poor people from helping themselves? A theology that holds that god rewards the just and thus the poor must be so because they're wicked and/or a fucked up reading of the phrase "the poor will always be with you" A desire to 'prove' an economic philosophy that the poor brought it on themselves by creating a self perpetuating spiral of doom and then pointing to peo…

Yes. This is why you find people of Christian faith volunteering to...you know what, never mind. I wish I lived in a world as simple as the one you seem to.

https://www.statnews.com/2017/03/03/roger-marshall-kansas-ob...

>“Just like Jesus said, ‘The poor will always be with us,’” he said. “There is a group of people that just don’t want health care and aren’t going to take care of themselves.”

>Pressed on that point, Marshall shrugged.

No seriously, some people have a really fucked up reading of "the poor will always be with us" and some of those people are actually in charge of things.

for some context on that particular bible quote: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2017/03/03/ignorant... Jesus is solid on this one, that doesn't mean people don't build their beliefs on some weird interpretations of what some one once told them Jesus said.

Post reply on HN