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The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

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Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#51

Post by dkersten »

alistairSH wrote: post #11
camillomiller wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every security check in Europe and SE Asia I passed in the last few years (~60 flights) mandated to take every device out of the bag, iPads and smartphones included

Weird. I've been to Italy, Scotland (via Dublin), and Iceland and never have to scan small devices separately. The laptop gets pulled out and placed in a bucket. The tablet and phone stay in luggage. It's all so inconsistent, it makes you wonder if any of the security agencies half any clue at all.

I've always been asked to remove all electronics (usually my laptop, ipad, phone and kindle) including phone power packs in the past few years. Most recently, this included Dublin and Berlin.

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#52

Post by alistairSH »

phicoh wrote: post #34
alistairSH wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird. I've been to Italy, Scotland (via Dublin), and Iceland and never have to scan small devices separately. The laptop gets pulled out and placed in a bucket. The tablet and phone stay in luggage. It's all so inconsistent, it makes you wonder if any of the security agencies half any clue at all.

I tend to bring an insane amount of electronics in my hand luggage. The reason that need big objects like laptops separately is that they block too much when they are scanning the rest of your luggage. So if on average the scanner can see through an ipad then there is no need to take it out. I my case, all they see is a huge collection of wires and small devices, so all of that needs to be put on separate shelves and…

Still weird. My carry-on for all of trips I listed above was MacBook Air, iPad, iPhone, Olympus mirrorless camera, 2-3 lenses, Canon P&S camera, 2 USB charging bricks, chargers for the camera batteries, charger for the MBA, a bunch of USB cables. Some snack food, a light jacket, and toiletries.

Of course, the really maddening part is the inconsistency. I use TSA Pre-check when possible, so I'm accustomed to not taking off my shoes, unpacking my bags, etc. It's a giant hassle when I'm flying abroad and the rules change. Especially since the rules change arbitrarily - I've passed through Edinburgh a few times over the past 2 years and sometimes the laptop comes out, sometimes it stays in the bag.

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#53

Post by bitwize »

Willamin wrote: post #50
captainmuon wrote: post #6

One explanation I haven't heard, is that this is about the idea that somebody could hack a plane from the passenger compartment. There doesn't even have to be evidence of a concrete plan - it would be enough for someone who knows about these kind of attacks to get the ear of somebody influential in the government, who then proactively enacts this ban. (The hacking story might be a good pretext to convince people inte…

This (and the whole "airplane mode" issue) could easily be solved by a few things. 1. Adding a faraday cage around the passenger sections of the plane would stop wireless connections from passengers to the panes main systems. 2. Completely separate the passenger systems from the plane systems - not unlike separating a monolithic application into a few smaller applications.

Adding a faraday cage would cost money and weight.

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#54

Post by wlesieutre »

croon wrote: post #28
lostboys67 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or those airports have poor security or are at risk of penetration by bad actors.

Or not. I've never had them check my laptop once (other than the scans) in any airport I've been through, and that's quite a few. (Not that I haven't seen it done though) This isn't about an assessment on airport capabilities in laptop security vetting.

The one time I've had anyone take a closer look at my computer equipment was an old iBook "yo yo" power supply. But that was a weird design for a power brick and not exactly a popular brand at the time. They probably looked pretty strange on an xray.

On the other hand I don't fly often, so I'm not much of a data point.

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#55

Post by StavrosK »

junto wrote: post #26
StavrosK wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hell? How did they know that?

Apparently he had absolutely no idea, but it completely freaked him out.

With good reason, I can imagine how paranoid that would make me. I'd definitely try to find how they found this out, starting with checking whether I posted it somewhere public. That would be the least worrisome scenario.

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#56

Post by throw2016 »

These policies continue to infringe more and more of people rights of free movement, privacy and communication and exposes serious limitations of democracy.

The government can continue to take anti-people actions without anything approaching debate and discussion under the 'frenzy of an external threat' as all authoritarians in history have done and tend to do, untill it is operating for all intent and purposes like a quasi-authoritarian state.

As we can in the UK and here this has come to pass and democracy has no response for 15 years and counting. Elections are 5 years apart, and even then political parties advocate near identical policies. By the time people can organize, and they would have to take a break from their day-to-day lives - which many would have to think seriously about - and try to effect change, decades could pass with the situation getting progressively worse and without making headway.

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#57

Post by yaur »

junto wrote: post #15

> Why not require passengers to turn their laptops on as they go through security? That would be a more effective security measure than forcing them to check them in their luggage. The reason that security checks aren't going to ask you to turn your laptop, ipad or mobile on, as a standard process, is that it takes too much time.

It also seems unlikely that someone at tsa is going to be able to tell the difference between Raspian and a full Ubuntu install.

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#58

Post by paulajohnson »

rplst8 wrote: post #40
logicallee wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: I am not defending the policy. I would like to address the specific argument you've used to attack it. (I don't agree with the laptop ban, and I want strong arguments being made against it, not weak arguments.) --- >At some point we are going to have to realise that terrorists are always going to want to target aircraft and just live with it. I would like you to please pay attention for a moment (try to follow…

> So, suppose that someone said, "At some point we should just accept that ransoms will happen" and so simply stop supporting the FBI and let bad guys kidnap any family of billionaires whenever they want, and to have these billionaires start paying ransoms. No one is saying we shouldn't attempt to stop an attack that is known, or that we shouldn't investigate who carried out and authorized an attack and seek justice.…

> The more we realize we are responsible for our own well being, take responsibility [...]

How, exactly, am I supposed to "take responsibility" for spotting someone with a hidden bomb when I get on an airplane?

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#59

Post by beat »

golemotron wrote: post #38

In the news recently we've seen that illegal border crossings from Mexico have gone down substantially just because the administration has signaled that there will be more deportations. This laptop ban could have the same effect. Increase the barriers for visitation from some countries and people think twice. If this is what the administration is doing, it's very Machiavellian.

Illegal crossings from Mexico had been going down for years prior to the current administration. And I imagine the numbers are seasonal, tied to harvesting work that probably gets a little slow in February.

Not that I exactly trust the current administration to tell the truth on the subject in the first place.

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#60

Post by Cpoll »

logicallee wrote: post #37
pieter1976 wrote: post #12

At some point we are going to have to realise that terrorists are always going to want to target aircraft and just live with it. This ban makes no sense because $BAD_GUY can just via some intermediate airport with their iPad Bomb. It's interesting that El Al has not decided to ban laptops (despite undoubtedly being a target) and, in fact, advises people not to put valuables in the hold: https://www.elal.com/en/Passen…

EDIT: I am not defending the policy. I would like to address the specific argument you've used to attack it. (I don't agree with the laptop ban, and I want strong arguments being made against it, not weak arguments.) --- >At some point we are going to have to realise that terrorists are always going to want to target aircraft and just live with it. I would like you to please pay attention for a moment (try to follow…

Aren't you committing an "argument from consequences"?

The argument most people are making is that the TSA is security theatre, and they're not stopping any bad guys.

I don't think anyone would argue if the TSA's methodology had any basis or evidence of efficacy. Usually the stories take on some ridiculous aspect: Someone has handled some chemicals that set off the detector, and they're interrogated for twenty hours - can't they just check the luggage for a bomb?

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