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Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

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Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#51

Post by tgragnato »

aestetix wrote: post #21
sanityUnbounded wrote: post #3

After the initial Vault 7 release, and even after Snowden in 2013, this is barely news. Our devices are not secure. Apple portrayed itself as a guardian angel for keeping the FBI of our devices for the past two years, while conveniently forgetting to mention that it has been installing iPhone backdoors for the CIA since 2008. edit: I misread the release, it is possible that they are installed after the fact, and appl…

I partly agree with you. I think that some of this technology is intrusive, and that there isn't nearly enough transparency around what the "intelligence" agencies do. That said, I'd like to see a lot more attention to data brokers like Axciom, Transunion, and Equifax. While having an enemy like the NSA is sharp and simple to understand, having loan applications and other things mysteriously denied is far more menaci…

The current state of affairs led me to believe that there's no big difference between data brokers and intelligence agencies from a citizen/sw_user perspective: they use shading techniques to extort and intercept data about people, from people, giving them to other people, for unclear and/or deplorable aims.

Terrorism and marketing are two reasons looking for a question, the reality is that who's doing this wants the power that comes with knowledge, and there's absolutely no difference between an intelligence agency and a data broker in this.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#52

Post by tgragnato »

rfrank wrote: post #47
jaredhansen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that's not as crazy as it sounds. I think many folks draw an (implicit, often subconscious) distinction between invasions of privacy that they care about, vs those they don't, and the former ties closely to the presence of a human mind on the other end of the wire. For most people it seems, the whole concept is linked much more closely to the fear of shame (e.g., your slightly bizarre kink will be outed to f…

> ...and are never going to tell what they hear, I don't have to care that they're listening. Why do you think this is the case? Has the government sufficient ability to secure data that the very fact they possess databases of information on US citizens isn't fundamentally problematic? Based on only the last year of breaches, I'd argue no. > People (rightfully) dismiss as insane the notion that some weird dude is sit…

> Embedded journalists, activists, people with sensitive medical information.

This reference sample is very small if compared to the possibilities.

Everybody has something private that can be used to extort informations, to gain privileges or what-else.

The US is not in the position to assure the current surveillance infrastructure (and so the confidentiality of the data) will endure the centuries.

An example ? ...

When you read [https://byparker.com/blog/2016/tim-cook-s-privacy-battle-is-...],

knowing that back during the cold war the stasi used to target `a certain kind of people` (with romeos and wiretapping),

knowing that the stasi lost control of what are called "the pink files" and that we currently have no idea of whoever is benefiting from them,

you start to realise that what currently can be considered a non-issue may in the future be something very dangerous.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#53

Post by rfrank »

tgragnato wrote: post #52
rfrank wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...and are never going to tell what they hear, I don't have to care that they're listening. Why do you think this is the case? Has the government sufficient ability to secure data that the very fact they possess databases of information on US citizens isn't fundamentally problematic? Based on only the last year of breaches, I'd argue no. > People (rightfully) dismiss as insane the notion that some weird dude is sit…

> Embedded journalists, activists, people with sensitive medical information. This reference sample is very small if compared to the possibilities. Everybody has something private that can be used to extort informations, to gain privileges or what-else. The US is not in the position to assure the current surveillance infrastructure (and so the confidentiality of the data) will endure the centuries. An example ? ... W…

> Embedded journalists, activists, people with sensitive medical information.

And? At risk populations are always minorities.

Journey Into the Whirlwind by Eugenia Ginzburg is a book you'd probably enjoy.

https://www.amazon.com/Journey-into-Whirlwind-Eugenia-Ginzbu...

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#54

Post by tgragnato »

rfrank wrote: post #53
tgragnato wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Embedded journalists, activists, people with sensitive medical information. This reference sample is very small if compared to the possibilities. Everybody has something private that can be used to extort informations, to gain privileges or what-else. The US is not in the position to assure the current surveillance infrastructure (and so the confidentiality of the data) will endure the centuries. An example ? ... W…

> Embedded journalists, activists, people with sensitive medical information. And? At risk populations are always minorities. Journey Into the Whirlwind by Eugenia Ginzburg is a book you'd probably enjoy. https://www.amazon.com/Journey-into-Whirlwind-Eugenia-Ginzbu...

Minorities are the most exposed and I perfectly agree, but with the new capabilities (big data analysis in particular) I believe that ANYONE can be a target, not only minorities.

Edit: the book seems great, I'm gonna buy it, thank you for the hint.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#55

Post by Chaebixi »

sanityUnbounded wrote: post #14
Chaebixi wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Also included in this release is the manual for the CIA's "NightSkies 1.2" a "beacon/loader/implant tool" for the Apple iPhone. Noteworthy is that NightSkies had reached 1.2 by 2008, and is expressly designed to be physically installed onto factory fresh iPhones. i.e the CIA has been infecting the iPhone supply chain of its targets since at least 2008 . > Apple portrayed itself as a guardian angel for keeping the…

Yes you are right. My mistake, although I'd be very interested for wikileaks to reveal which shipping companies are complicit, whether it be USPS, UPS, or the packages are intercepted in China before they even reach the states.

Now that I think of it, it might not even be the shippers doing the diversion, but Customs and Boarder Patrol:

http://www.joc.com/regulation-policy/customs-regulations/us-...:

> Tarek Morsi can almost set his calendar by the notices he gets from Customs when the agency selects a couple of his export containers for what it calls random inspections of their contents.

> HTS [Morsi's company] itself can’t perform the unpacking and repacking of its customers’ containers for inspections, because Customs picks the bonded warehouses it uses for its Customs Examination Stations.

> Another Los Angeles broker who asked not to be identified said Customs has confirmed to him that it is targeting export containers containing household goods, computers and peripherals, and used vehicles. “They are looking for illegal arms exports,” he said. Customs also may be targeting containers bound for Africa and the Middle East;

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#56

Post by rfrank »

tgragnato wrote: post #54
rfrank wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Embedded journalists, activists, people with sensitive medical information. And? At risk populations are always minorities. Journey Into the Whirlwind by Eugenia Ginzburg is a book you'd probably enjoy. https://www.amazon.com/Journey-into-Whirlwind-Eugenia-Ginzbu...

Minorities are the most exposed and I perfectly agree, but with the new capabilities (big data analysis in particular) I believe that ANYONE can be a target, not only minorities. Edit: the book seems great, I'm gonna buy it, thank you for the hint.

Oh totally, that's the point of the system. I brought up who I perceive as groups most vulnerable to surveillance to address the "most people only care because shame" point. IE the medical data that could be considered 'sensitive' (and negatively impact career potential if more open) could include things like depression/anxiety, high blood pressure for a stressful work environment, etc. I'm generally of the opinion that open data hardens stereotypes, not breaks down walls.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#57

Post by willstrafach »

3131s wrote: post #42
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but you seem uninformed. All of the information we saw from the Snowden leaks was passive interception of lines they had a legitimate need to tap. What they did, which I dont agree with, was intercept all the data and analyze it to deduce likely targets, rather than explicitly targeting data to capture. That was the entirety of the Snowden leaks: they're overly broad in their selection criteria…

> That was the entirety of the Snowden leaks Is that so? So the NSA did not secretly collect all data from the unencrypted fiber between Google and Yahoo's data centers? And the NSA never paid RSA Security 10 million dollars to back Dual_EC_DRBG as part of the broader program Bullrun intended to subvert and weaken cryptographic protocols that underlie our national security and critical online infrastructure? You are…

He appears to be correct. Much was editorialized, so legit issues got mixed up with false statements.

> So the NSA did not secretly collect all data from the unencrypted fiber between Google and Yahoo's data centers?

I recall mentions of this, but do you have a source for your "all" claim here? As that would be a bit different than passively watching for specifically tasked IPs (or other selectors).

> And the NSA never paid RSA Security 10 million dollars to back Dual_EC_DRBG as part of the broader program Bullrun intended to subvert and weaken cryptographic protocols that underlie our national security and critical online infrastructure?

I believe this was theorized based on something that did look legitimately concerning in a Classification guidance document, but this was not substantiated within the leaks. Did new material come out which substantiated this claim?

> You are aware that the Snowden documents discuss intelligence agencies outside the US as well, and detail our coordination with these agencies?

We definitely partner with agencies outside of the US, this is not a secret.

> What about spying on allied foreign world leaders?

This was also certainly in the leaks. Countries gather intelligence on other countries, whether that is for nonproliferation reasons, understanding military intentions, or other reasons. People are free to believe that this shouldn't happen, but again, not much of a secret.

> Gag orders placed on the largest companies on earth?

What are you referring to here? Collection for FISA targets, or something else? Not very clear (We probably do agree with it being problematic).

> Parallel construction?

This was in articles about the leaks, but I do not believe there was any material in the leaks which indicated that this was a known practice (versus a theory of what might happen).

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#58

Post by willstrafach »

rfrank wrote: post #33
sanityUnbounded wrote: post #3

After the initial Vault 7 release, and even after Snowden in 2013, this is barely news. Our devices are not secure. Apple portrayed itself as a guardian angel for keeping the FBI of our devices for the past two years, while conveniently forgetting to mention that it has been installing iPhone backdoors for the CIA since 2008. edit: I misread the release, it is possible that they are installed after the fact, and appl…

Before leaks, "Thinking the government is monitoring everyone online and using their mobile devices to spy on them is insane, you conspiracy theorist." After leaks, "This is barely news, everyone knew this already." Every. Single. Time.

Similar to the first "Vault 7" release, this is guidance related to spy tools. No mass surveillance or anything which appears to be unjust. These all require close-access exploitation, they are not remote, in fact most of the guidance specifically relates to these being designed for devices which are to be gifted to the targets.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#59

Post by rfrank »

willstrafach wrote: post #58
rfrank wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before leaks, "Thinking the government is monitoring everyone online and using their mobile devices to spy on them is insane, you conspiracy theorist." After leaks, "This is barely news, everyone knew this already." Every. Single. Time.

Similar to the first "Vault 7" release, this is guidance related to spy tools. No mass surveillance or anything which appears to be unjust. These all require close-access exploitation, they are not remote, in fact most of the guidance specifically relates to these being designed for devices which are to be gifted to the targets.

Yeah, that cache of zero days and all those DLLs aren't for mass surveillance. Ok. That's super duper believable.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#60

Post by emilga »

sanityUnbounded wrote: post #3

After the initial Vault 7 release, and even after Snowden in 2013, this is barely news. Our devices are not secure. Apple portrayed itself as a guardian angel for keeping the FBI of our devices for the past two years, while conveniently forgetting to mention that it has been installing iPhone backdoors for the CIA since 2008. edit: I misread the release, it is possible that they are installed after the fact, and appl…

> In this room there are 63 microphones, 126 cameras, and approximately 30 open laptops, each with their own camera and microphone.

Would it not be possible to also use the loud-speakers as microphones?

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