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China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

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Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#51
For data on elephant populations and the effect of ivory bans or increased demand, check out: https://elephant-atlas.org/ - including an API. The counts come from an awesome program called the Great Elephant Census (http://www.greatelephantcensus.com/).

Disclaimer: I work for The OCR

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the day Mr. T convinced me not to do drugs.

Public awareness campaigns were key in stopping the ivory trade within the United States (before it was ramped up again by the Chinese). Demand is the real problem, and creating the image that ivory (or shark fin soup) isn't cool is extremely effective.

Do you have any example of such a campaign? I'm only aware of things like "drugs aren't cool", which isn't going to sway anyone. I wonder what an effective example of a public awareness campaign looks like.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#54
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading material for you from the president of Columbia, citing the failures of the War on Drugs. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/18/colombia-unite... "“We need to provide social and economic alternatives to small growers of illegal crops and other vulnerable communities in order to create the necessary conditions to bring them back to legality,” wrote Santos in an opinion piece in the Observer." And your…

> We need to provide social and economic alternatives to small growers of illegal crops and other vulnerable communities in order to create the necessary conditions to bring them back to legality, We don't want legality. The reason why the situation is really bad currently is because back in 2008, CITES lifted restrictions on ivory sales which allowed several African nations to sell their ivory stockpiles to China an…

The "them" in this sentence is the farmers not the drugs: the quote is arguing for giving the farmers a path to a legal livelihood. Similarly the parent is arguing for legal alternatives to poaching as desperate, starving people will always care about feeding their families more than an arbitrary law.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public awareness campaigns were key in stopping the ivory trade within the United States (before it was ramped up again by the Chinese). Demand is the real problem, and creating the image that ivory (or shark fin soup) isn't cool is extremely effective.

Do you have any example of such a campaign? I'm only aware of things like "drugs aren't cool", which isn't going to sway anyone. I wonder what an effective example of a public awareness campaign looks like.

I think that the second wave of KKK was stopped by something like this. The shark fin campaign in China was also a success.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#57
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is there to like about elephants? Honest question. To me they look like gigantic rocks who shit a lot. But of course that could be said of many animals. ;P

They also wreck habitat for other animals who are in more danger. They are very destructive eaters.

Pretty ironic coming from a human.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#58

Again? They have already banned the ivory trade a few times, do they actually mean it this time?

Not all of the bans are the same. You might be referring to the ban that was announced late 2015 (IIRC) which was a temporary ban for a year to see if it works.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the day Mr. T convinced me not to do drugs.

Public awareness campaigns were key in stopping the ivory trade within the United States (before it was ramped up again by the Chinese). Demand is the real problem, and creating the image that ivory (or shark fin soup) isn't cool is extremely effective.

Calling public awareness campaigns "extremely effective" is a vast simplification of the matter. Public awareness campaigns are good at pushing a substance towards being banned. Once a substance is prohibited, it is subject to the "forbidden fruit" effect, which I've mentioned below [1]. Additionally, if public awareness campaigns continue under a ban, they're likely to induce a "boomerang" effect. For instance, the National Youth Anti-Drug Media Campaign may have promoted drug use and pro-cannabis attitudes in the young [2]. Crazy, right? Well, California did just legalize marijuana!

My guess is that parent is obliquely referring to that phenomenon.

In my chosen domain of rhinos, it is starting to look as though the public awareness campaigns run from 2008 to 2014 very well could've accidently spread the message that rhino horn is rare, risky, and desirable.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13287393

[2] http://findings.org.uk/docs/Ashton_M_1.pdf

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#60

Again? They have already banned the ivory trade a few times, do they actually mean it this time?

Not all of the bans are the same. You might be referring to the ban that was announced late 2015 (IIRC) which was a temporary ban for a year to see if it works.

Meh, they do this a lot. Every year they talk about how coal will be banned in Beijing next year, or that they'll stop harvesting organs from condemned prisoners, and so on. Just for them to repeat the same pledge next year. The Chinese gov promises arent credible, and something isn't a sure thing until they really do it.
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