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PepsiCo Wants to Sell Healthy Food, Consumers Want Chips

wsj.com

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Re: PepsiCo Wants to Sell Healthy Food, Consumers Want Chips

#51

Post by nitrogen »

mixedCase wrote: post #42
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a backlash, it's science. See e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/ While there's no conclusive proof diet soda definitely causes weight gain, there's absolutely no evidence at all that it helps with weight loss. Sugary or not, there's no rational basis for considering sodas of any variety "healthy."

Diet soda does not cause weight gain. Diet soda makes you hungrier, and that makes you eat more and gain weight.

Root cause vs. proximate cause. If artificial sweeteners prime the body to expect calories that it doesn't receive, and (or by some other mechanism) this causes later overeating, then it's fair to say that diet soda does cause weight gain.

As an aside, I have a hypothesis that naturally focusing on proximate vs. root causes is actually a big contributor to the divide between major segments of the population.

Re: PepsiCo Wants to Sell Healthy Food, Consumers Want Chips

#52

Post by yourapostasy »

fotbr wrote: post #26
wincy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of thing scares me. As someone who lost 70 pounds eating bacon and eggs for six months, and eating about 5x the recommended daily amount of salt that whole time, I'm worried the government stepping in will make all our food taste like cardboard. Sugar is the enemy, but so often fat and salt are demonized when in a proper diet these aren't unhealthy at all.

As someone who could stand to lose (more than) a few pounds, this bacon and eggs diet sounds interesting. Was this part of a low/no carb diet? Something else?

Indeed what he described sounds a lot like low/no-carb diet, also known as ketogenic diet. While lots of people have success on it, it isn't a panacea: the closer you get to "normal" BMI, the more you will have to manage caloric intake, and for a minority who attempt it, ketogenic doesn't work for them at all. Lots of caveats, but one I see increasingly as more people pick up ketogenic dieting: many go overboard on the protein part, which metabolizes into carbohydrates and defeats the intent. Very, very roughly about 80% of your caloric intake will be comprised of fats, 15% protein, 5% carbs (if any appreciable amount; some will restrict down to 20g or less per day). Go slow, modify one variable at a time, focus on long-term (3+ year) consistent weight loss, accept your lapses with grace, and good luck.

Re: PepsiCo Wants to Sell Healthy Food, Consumers Want Chips

#53

Post by tropchan »

foota wrote: post #6
Analemma_ wrote: post #5

It's a little dishonest of this article not to point out that junk food is engineered- I mean literally engineered, by teams of scientists running controlled experiments- to be as addictive as possible. This isn't a question of those wacky consumers and their revealed preference not matching their stated intentions; human willpower should barely enter the conversation when this topic comes up. If PepsiCo is genuinely…

Is it possible to engineer healthy and addictive food?

That would change the game.

Re: PepsiCo Wants to Sell Healthy Food, Consumers Want Chips

#54

Post by miend »

zeroer wrote: post #18

The WSJ and Pepsi mention " Quaker oatmeal, Naked juice and Sabra hummus" as "good for you" foods. I've never tried Sabra hummus, but the others are super sugary. A couple years ago I made a conscious attempt to eat less salt and sugar, and once you do so it's amazing how much sugar you notice added to virtually every processed food you'll find at a grocery store. Cooking food from scratch is basically the only way t…

Quaker oatmeal is sugary? I thought it was simply "oats". I've never noticed any sugar that I haven't added myself.

Re: PepsiCo Wants to Sell Healthy Food, Consumers Want Chips

#55

Post by chrisfosterelli »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #15
chrisfosterelli wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to think diet pop can fit into this category... but then there's the backlash of "unnatural chemicals" which sceptics believe must obviously be bad for you.

It's not a backlash, it's science. See e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/ While there's no conclusive proof diet soda definitely causes weight gain, there's absolutely no evidence at all that it helps with weight loss. Sugary or not, there's no rational basis for considering sodas of any variety "healthy."

> there's absolutely no evidence at all that it helps with weight loss

I didn't claim this. "Healthy" food is a subjective term, and to most people does not mean "something that makes you loose weight". Compared to non-diet pop, it is a healthy alternative.

If you're trying to loose weight, stick with water. If you are managing your weight fine and enjoy pop, diet is better than non-diet. The studies you linked to support this.

Re: PepsiCo Wants to Sell Healthy Food, Consumers Want Chips

#56

Post by plorkyeran »

miend wrote: post #54
zeroer wrote: post #18

The WSJ and Pepsi mention " Quaker oatmeal, Naked juice and Sabra hummus" as "good for you" foods. I've never tried Sabra hummus, but the others are super sugary. A couple years ago I made a conscious attempt to eat less salt and sugar, and once you do so it's amazing how much sugar you notice added to virtually every processed food you'll find at a grocery store. Cooking food from scratch is basically the only way t…

Quaker oatmeal is sugary? I thought it was simply "oats". I've never noticed any sugar that I haven't added myself.

They do sell just plain oats with no other ingredients, but the instant oatmeal has a whole bunch of added sugar and the marketing deliberately conflates the two.

Re: PepsiCo Wants to Sell Healthy Food, Consumers Want Chips

#57

Post by gajjanag »

massysett wrote: post #12
Analemma_ wrote: post #5

It's a little dishonest of this article not to point out that junk food is engineered- I mean literally engineered, by teams of scientists running controlled experiments- to be as addictive as possible. This isn't a question of those wacky consumers and their revealed preference not matching their stated intentions; human willpower should barely enter the conversation when this topic comes up. If PepsiCo is genuinely…

When scientists want to engineer healthy food to be healthier and more inexpensive--a.k.a. genetic modification--they are met with superstition and FUD.

The thing is that such engineering of healthy food is not really needed in developed countries with reasonable income levels. Yes, if one wants cheap processed food that is healthy, one needs significant engineering.

The raw ingredients that are part of classical preparations are extremely cheap. For example, in the United States, rice can be had at ~ $0.50-$0.75 a pound, or in my favorite normalization, As for preparation time, again with some thought one can minimize effort (pressure cooking is one concrete example).

The point is that if people thought a bit more deeply about their food choices and the cost tradeoffs made, healthy food budgets should really be very minimal as compared to far more expensive things, like health insurance, rent, etc. Most media outlets instead spread a lot of disinformation - the standard "working" assumption is that healthy food is organic, is found in expensive stores like Whole Foods, and that one needs to pay more for healthy food. A fun experiment that illustrates this point: try looking at the labels of marketed "healthy/organic" stuff at a store geared towards such things and examine the sugar content in them. And this is why such places get away with ridiculousness regarding their prices on basic items.

Re: PepsiCo Wants to Sell Healthy Food, Consumers Want Chips

#58

Post by tzs »

massysett wrote: post #12
Analemma_ wrote: post #5

It's a little dishonest of this article not to point out that junk food is engineered- I mean literally engineered, by teams of scientists running controlled experiments- to be as addictive as possible. This isn't a question of those wacky consumers and their revealed preference not matching their stated intentions; human willpower should barely enter the conversation when this topic comes up. If PepsiCo is genuinely…

When scientists want to engineer healthy food to be healthier and more inexpensive--a.k.a. genetic modification--they are met with superstition and FUD.

It's not superstition or FUD to be concerned that given the long track record of the big food producers prioritizing profit over their customers' health, letting them use even more powerful food engineering techniques than the ones they already have might not be a good idea.

Re: PepsiCo Wants to Sell Healthy Food, Consumers Want Chips

#59

Post by tyingq »

zeroer wrote: post #18

The WSJ and Pepsi mention " Quaker oatmeal, Naked juice and Sabra hummus" as "good for you" foods. I've never tried Sabra hummus, but the others are super sugary. A couple years ago I made a conscious attempt to eat less salt and sugar, and once you do so it's amazing how much sugar you notice added to virtually every processed food you'll find at a grocery store. Cooking food from scratch is basically the only way t…

Sabra's nutrition label seems to indicate no added sugar: http://i.imgur.com/1BstN2i.png

Re: PepsiCo Wants to Sell Healthy Food, Consumers Want Chips

#60

Post by zeroer »

tyingq wrote: post #59
zeroer wrote: post #18

The WSJ and Pepsi mention " Quaker oatmeal, Naked juice and Sabra hummus" as "good for you" foods. I've never tried Sabra hummus, but the others are super sugary. A couple years ago I made a conscious attempt to eat less salt and sugar, and once you do so it's amazing how much sugar you notice added to virtually every processed food you'll find at a grocery store. Cooking food from scratch is basically the only way t…

Sabra's nutrition label seems to indicate no added sugar: http://i.imgur.com/1BstN2i.png

Good point. After seeing the picture, I think I have had this. It's pretty good.
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