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Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

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Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#51

Post by [deleted] »

ryandrake wrote: post #26
trjordan wrote: post #3

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I once heard it explained to me as this: It's easy to deride the journey of the rich college student: 80-hour internships at Goldman Sachs, unpaid positions in government, etc. But, the things that are done by successful people are hard, as hard as walking a tightrope. The difference is that rich students walk this tightrope over a bed of pillows. Poor students walk it o…

I knew someone who was so aggressively proud of their success, having founded and grown a successful business. He'd talk your ear off about how people like him were the ones adding value to society and how unsuccessful people are just lazy and don't try hard enough or don't take enough risks, or are just deadbeats, and how successful, hard working people are punished with taxes--you know, the standard soapbox speech.…

[deleted]

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#52

Post by lordnacho »

Wow, this story resonated with me. I also have parents who were Chinese minority in north Vietnam. And my dad in fact had 16 siblings as well. And some of those siblings now live in Oakland.

Anyway, I recall growing up there was an incident that almost knocked me off course. My parents had been paying for a private school for years, and they let me know it was very, very, expensive. Even with a discount, pretty much everything was going to this school for me and my brother. They ran a restaurant, so food was cheap. Not a lot of other expenses, my dad somehow always knew a regular who could get a car or HiFi cheaply for us. I dressed like a slob.

So I applied to go to a government school. I knew it was going to be a culture shock, not only because they tended to speak the local language instead of English, but if it was so burdensome on the family, perhaps it was worth it. I had a friend who wanted to do that and actually did.

I mentioned it to a classmate of mine, and he told me not to. The best part of the school was high school, and we'd both be better off for university by staying there. A number of kids has gone to top universities from there. His family weren't rich either, also on a massive discount. So I mulled it over and stayed. My parents were supportive.

High school turned out to be worthwhile, despite some weird international school issues. I got into competitive maths, skipped a year in it, and generally did quite well socially. Got good marks, and went on to a top uni in the UK.

Which was also a bit of a culture shock. The mentioned buddy came for a visit and he told me he saw people walking around in top hats. There was definitely a lot of privilege around. One buddy invited me to his house, down the street from where Shakespeare grew up. This was a second home, his parents mostly lived in Italy, curating art. Guess how little I could speak about that.

Events seemed to cost a fortune, but it wasn't really the money that was weird, it was knowing how to dress. Some people seem to be born with the knowledge of what black tie means. And how to behave while wearing it. There were all sorts of conventions and special lingo that in retrospect seem trivial, but as a young kid you don't want to stray too far from the norm.

Anyway, one does survive such traumas. There are always people around who are very interested in your story, and understanding that people come from different backgrounds. It's not like the toffs actually hate you, a lot of them are quite curious.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#53

Post by mzw_mzw »

harryjo wrote: post #36
briandear wrote: post #27

This seems to me to be a great example of why school choice is important. Those opposed to school choice would have this kid staying in a falling school to serve their social agenda. I get it, we should make all schools "good schools," but while we're waiting for that to happen, must the smart and motivated be the pawns?

What happens when everyone chooses the same good school?

What happens when everyone wants to buy a particular car or a particular phone?

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#54

Post by pnathan »

hayksaakian wrote: post #30

The most important thing nobody teaches lower class people is how to work "the system." "work hard" is the catch phrase everybody shouts from the roof tops. It's a lot like tax filing / accounting, or hiring a lawyer for a public trial. In the case of the lawyer, society has recognized how absolutely hopeless it would be to defend yourself in criminal court, and the law entitles every individual to an attorney. A law…

This is a huge point. The knowledge (social, interpersonal, financial, image) gap between 'comfortably poor' and 'white collar professional' is deep and broad. College is valuable in that it makes - can make - the difference between a broad gap and a narrow gap. Most of that is not the substance of the courses, but the substance of the collegiate community.

Often I have difficulty coming up with the appropriate words to describe to my peers brought up in the professional environment how very different life is when you're not in the white collar world.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#55

Post by ajkjk »

ianai wrote: post #28
ajkjk wrote: post #22

For a year or so I've been keeping an ad hoc record (a text file!), to the best of my ability, of all my financial losses due to personal mistakes - so, moving out of my old apartment a month late was a 1200$ mistake, and dropping and breaking my phone was a 200$ one. I'm also trying to keep track of very risky behavior that didn't become an actual financial loss: driving in NYC during the blizzard last year didn't a…

did you remind her that you were only tracking financial mistakes?

I should've finished with how it hit me: that I found the statement pretty powerful because, indeed, most of everything that had gone wrong or been stressful in my life that year was in that file. It was a reminder of how fortunate I've been.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#57

Post by speeder »

trjordan wrote: post #3

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I once heard it explained to me as this: It's easy to deride the journey of the rich college student: 80-hour internships at Goldman Sachs, unpaid positions in government, etc. But, the things that are done by successful people are hard, as hard as walking a tightrope. The difference is that rich students walk this tightrope over a bed of pillows. Poor students walk it o…

I am "half-way" privileged, for my country standards (Brazil), I am part of a tiny elite, having college education, a sister that went to do masters on MIT, money to buy a computer that for brazillian standards is very high end (even if I had to buy the chassis from a junkyard).

Also knowing english is a rarity, coding, even less, both, even more uncommon (when I worked in a company that had 50 coders, only 5 knew english!)

I did things, that I know that more talented people never would, for example moving "out of the blue" to another city to attempt to create an startup, or build an arcade machine and code it with money out of my pocket so I could later use this to get a job (it worked, I did got a job with that).

This was because I knew, that if I failed, (and I actually did failed...) I had a place to return to, my parents home is not awesome, but I know I won't starve there, even if I had several weeks eating only mandioca that grows in our yard (the root that people use to make what is called in US "tapioca"), the fact I DO have a yard to grow food is already a rarity (in urban areas) in first place.

Yet, frequently people ask me: "Why you don't move?" or "why you don't attempt a job in Canada/Japan/Singapore?" or "Why you don't go for a masters/doctor/phd?"

The answer is always the same: my net worth is negative, although I won't starve, I can't risk more, having a boring job, even if just a cashier job or something like that, that pay my debts, is better than risking more debt, because here in Brazil personal bankruptcy doesn't exist, and compound debt is common, getting more debt can mean getting eternally in debt, and I want to avoid that fate, I have "richer" family members that fell to it, and their lives are absolutely screwed up (for example: I have uncles that own huge farms, yet spend most of their time hiding in distant cities, and placing their money in "strangers" bank accounts to avoid it being immediately seized, I have farmer uncle that struggle to eat because every time he has money, someone seizes it before he can buy food, and his farm is "frozen" by the government that wants it as tax payment, with taxes worth more than the farm itself)

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#59

Post by pnathan »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #49
hayksaakian wrote: post #30

The most important thing nobody teaches lower class people is how to work "the system." "work hard" is the catch phrase everybody shouts from the roof tops. It's a lot like tax filing / accounting, or hiring a lawyer for a public trial. In the case of the lawyer, society has recognized how absolutely hopeless it would be to defend yourself in criminal court, and the law entitles every individual to an attorney. A law…

So, what they need is some sort of advocate to show them the ropes. Sounds doable, if approached respectfully. Vaguely reminds me of the book "Rich dad, poor dad."

> what they need is some sort of advocate

In brief, because I'm at my day job: no. That is not the right approach. That is the approach that gets one labeled an elitist and a snob. It's not appreciated by the little people you're trying to help.

The correct approach is one which maximizes agency. This will have a wider variance of success, but will be received far better.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#60

Post by zajd »

cbhl wrote: post #43
ajkjk wrote: post #22

For a year or so I've been keeping an ad hoc record (a text file!), to the best of my ability, of all my financial losses due to personal mistakes - so, moving out of my old apartment a month late was a 1200$ mistake, and dropping and breaking my phone was a 200$ one. I'm also trying to keep track of very risky behavior that didn't become an actual financial loss: driving in NYC during the blizzard last year didn't a…

When I took a problem-solving class in college, they broadly categorized problems into three types (allegedly in increasing order of difficulty to solve): problems that can be solved with money, problems with processes, and problems with people.

Seems pretty weak. You need all three to do anything. Seems like a weak backdoor argument that "money doesn't matter when it comes to the hard things" (as long as your hard things don't take money)
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