Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

fastcoexist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 336 posts

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#51

Post by JanneVee »

jokoon wrote: post #4

I fail to understand why Scandinavian politics always manage to make sense. Is that cultural, historical, economical, or does the tough climate force people to think a little bit more about how they manage their society?

The devil is in the details. For example the "chemical tax" is on the weight of the products, so when you buy consumer electronics you are supposed to be paying 120 kr/kg up to a maximum of 320 kr before VAT. This is blamed on environmnentally hazardous flame retardants on circuit boards. So the very design of this tax incentives less weighty electronic products, but I've learned that some electronic products longevity is correlated to its cooling, so you end up paying for the heat sink instead of the circuitboard. So it can even become a perverse incentive where you buy the cheapest possible product that might last a shorter compared to a heavier version that lasts longer.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#52

Post by gvurrdon »

sokoloff wrote: post #35
to3m wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How to change a light bulb on a Renault Megane: http://www.meganeownersclub.co.uk/changingmeganebulb.php

There are Audis where you need to remove the front bumper to change the headlamp. (Less of a concern with HID and LEDs, but some of them are still halogen.)

I had one of those, at least according to the repair manual. In that case I found that the local garage were able to change the bulb without dismantling anything by putting the car over their inspection pit and reaching up through a narrow gap between the engine and headlight (having small hands helped here). This was only 5 minutes' work for them and so the charge was very low, and it was easier for me to pay that than to attempt to jack the car up on my driveway and crawl under.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#53

Post by Numberwang »

jokoon wrote: post #4

I fail to understand why Scandinavian politics always manage to make sense. Is that cultural, historical, economical, or does the tough climate force people to think a little bit more about how they manage their society?

Social Democracy/High Taxes

Culturally protestant but atheist/indifferent

Not big enough for perverse corruption.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#54

Post by croon »

titzer wrote: post #27
croon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assure you we have stupidity here too, it's a global trait. While this one makes sense, there's also a proposed "Chemicals tax" for 2017, taxing electronics (phones/tablets/games consoles/etc) per weight, regardless of contents. So what we waste the most (phones/tablets) will barely pay for anything, while TV's which can last 5-10 years will get more expensive.

Wouldn't the answer then be to apply the Chemical tax, divided by the expected lifetime of the device?

Sure, that would be better, but it's still not really related to the amount of (environmentally detrimental) chemicals in the devices.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#55

Post by Retric »

sametmax wrote: post #36
tmptmp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>And the failure mode either sounds dramatic (like a jet engine coming apart in the spin cycle) and/or the machine starts putting brown grease onto the clothes, making people believe the problem is not a simple one. Great insight. I wonder how far we (as in general society) have come from the science/technology aspects of our day to day life. Even repairing simple machines like a washing machine is almost beyond the…

I always has been. Even 30 years ago most people didn't know how to fix those machines. People fixing cars or plumbery have been popularized by TV and books, but really they were a minority, for the simple reason learning a skill takes time. And most people invest their time in only a limited set of things.

Over half the 70 year old guys I know can repair 1960's era cars. First they where relatively simple, second they broke down often. If you made a lot of money then pay someone else, otherwise you where on the sliding scale.

Basically it was like PC repair before laptops. Even if you did not know how to do it working from a good book you would muddle through it.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#56

Post by yodsanklai »

tmptmp wrote: post #26
sokoloff wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "only" to screw consumers over. IMEstimation, vanishingly few consumers would repair a washer with a bearing failure, most because they assume the service call and repair would be $400+ and the new machine only about double that, so might as well just buy a new one. And the failure mode either sounds dramatic (like a jet engine coming apart in the spin cycle) and/or the machine starts putting brown grease on…

>>And the failure mode either sounds dramatic (like a jet engine coming apart in the spin cycle) and/or the machine starts putting brown grease onto the clothes, making people believe the problem is not a simple one. Great insight. I wonder how far we (as in general society) have come from the science/technology aspects of our day to day life. Even repairing simple machines like a washing machine is almost beyond the…

It's not only a matter of ability, but also of opportunity cost.

For instance, when I was a teenager, I always fixed my bicycle by myself. Nowadays, I guess I could do it if I had too, but I prefer to pay $50 and have somebody else do it for me. Same goes for washing machines or similar appliance, I'm sure many people could manage to fix them by themselves by spending enough time, but is it worth it?

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#57

Post by hiisukun »

userbinator wrote: post #40
J-dawg wrote: post #6

This idea seems so sensible it's a no-brainer. (I'm almost dreading the comments explaining why I'm wrong!) The human race is producing unprecedented quantities of non-recyclable "stuff". It's pumped out of the ground as oil, converted into plastics, and after a short life, buried in the ground again. Maybe this wouldn't be so bad if much of it didn't also end up floating in the ocean, being eaten by animals and cont…

It's pumped out of the ground as oil, converted into plastics, and after a short life, buried in the ground again. Maybe this wouldn't be so bad if much of it didn't also end up floating in the ocean, being eaten by animals and contaminating the human food chain. What I think is most sad about this is that we've come up with a material that can last nearly forever and is relatively easy to reuse and recycle (at least…

I'm in two minds about biodegradable plastics. Where I'm from, plastic bags are no longer the norm for supermarkets to pack groceries in, and so most people carry their own re-usable bags to the store, or get goods packed in biodegradable plastics.

While this is anecdotal, it is common amongst my peers for the biodegradable bags to be used as general household garbage bags. I think this feels much better than using the previous long lasting ones, but knowing what people put inside them - I wonder if it really makes a difference.

On the other hand, I can remember when the plastic supermarket bags were phased out, and it was impressive just how quickly people adopted reusable bags. This small change in behaviour must come with at least some increased awareness of resource consumption, surely?

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#58

Post by berntb »

titzer wrote: post #29
charlesdm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget to add their 25% VAT rate if you actually want to spend your money.. so you end up with 42.7% + 25%. That's nuts.

Wouldn't that be 42.7% + (57.3% * .25) = 57%?

The difference is that the previous government lowered the taxes for the first 20K SEK earned per month. (This was mostly after my time in Sweden.)

My point regarding the impossibility of service work at these levels stands. Quite a few tax exemptions had to be created to get the population to start paying taxes for those kinds of jobs.

Edit: For the part of the salary above ca 19K/month, you're correct. In fact, the taxes are progressive, so it is even worse.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#60

Post by moogly »

jamesblonde wrote: post #43
jokoon wrote: post #4

I fail to understand why Scandinavian politics always manage to make sense. Is that cultural, historical, economical, or does the tough climate force people to think a little bit more about how they manage their society?

It's from the 1920s when the social democrats convinced the working person to ditch religion for a more 'rational' form of politics. Despite the other negative comments (nobody thinks their govt is doing good), politicans are held to account and policy is primarily driven by rational debate. For example, there was a strong rumour that a recent prime minister (Goran Persson) was religious. Being religious would obviou…

Not a rumour. When asked what profession he would have had he not gone into politics, he answered "priest".
Post reply on HN