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Uber's Failure in Japan

disruptingjapan.com

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Re: Uber's Failure in Japan

#51

Post by riotdash »

Uber may be fighting against the law, but when the government does not respect the democratic will of the people, it is actually ok and in the long run will benefit all.

I'm based in Helsinki, Finland and Shanghai, China (50/50). Two very different countries in all aspects. In both countries government used to regulate taxis and today China does not anymore but Finland still does.

In Finland taxis are very new (BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi, Tesla etc.) and expensive (supported with tax payers money) and they are REALLY expensive to take. Way too expensive. This may sound ridiculous, but in my home town (major Finnish city) during the weekends it was common for people to walk home 7-10km after the night out, because taxis are so expensive. They are not seen as normal transportation service but instead more as a luxury service that you have to carefully consider before taking. They are still very safe, clean, have their own Uber-like app etc. Finns have demanded many many years (long before Uber) for the taxi-monopoly to be destroyed, but the government has happily turned a blind eye to them. Ubers in Finland are usually Toyotas or Volkswagens, quite new and clean. Prices are only 50-60% of traditional taxis.

So what about China? Taxis are old/medium-level volkswagens, little dirty, driver may be smoking inside the car, quite safe but there are many people playing with the meter or overcharging in some other ways. Some drivers are also really greedy and arrogant: They may ask you where are you going before letting you into the car and if they don't like the route they'll not take you. Anyway they are relatively affordable for average people in China. When Uber and it's Chinese competitor DiDi came to the market, the government was confused at first but later legalized them when they realized that competition will benefit all in the long run. Now? Uber and Didi are extremely popular, significantly cheaper than traditional taxis, clean, safe and no more people have to worry about getting bullshitted with the cab fare.

So once again Uber made things better for all. Sometimes breaking the law in not only acceptable, but required for a greater good and change to happen. In Finland however it might take a while since the government is still living in their 1950s mentality and currently hunting down Uber drivers and suing them.

Some might say it's wrong that Uber is putting all the responsibility on the driver. You know what? It's not. They know what they are signing up for and besides if Uber as a company was responsible for every single incident all over the world in every country, the company wouldn't exist anymore. No investor money could cover all those fines. The current way is the only way Uber can exist and only way the change can happen.

Re: Uber's Failure in Japan

#52

Post by icebraining »

privateersman wrote: post #30
pnathan wrote: post #24

The advantage of Uber has nothing to do with price and everything to do with grotesque incompetence on the part of the taxi operators. Five-six years ago, when I asked for a receipt for an expense report, I got a hand-scribbled note. Running credit cards often required hand-based crank mechanisms. Autoplaying TV on the back of a seat that was billed unless you explicitly opted out. It was, in short, a scammy operatio…

I guess that's why I don't understand the hype. In many countries Uber is just another taxi brand, one that's licensed by the local authorities. The only thing it has going for it is the app, but all their competitors have apps too. Plus, I've never had to use an app - I just call an automated number, press one digit and a taxi arrives at my door within a few minutes. If I'm using a mobile phone then the operator ans…

Maybe - but in many countries it isn't. In my European country, calling a cab means always talking to the operator (often after 2m ringing) and then waiting 10-30m. Around 10% of the time it never comes, so you'll have to call again. When it finally does, your reward is paying an extra fee for having called.

Then there are the zones; your home is a bit outside the city? The meter will be running - at an increased rate! - before the car even arrives.

Re: Uber's Failure in Japan

#53

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

pnathan wrote: post #24

The advantage of Uber has nothing to do with price and everything to do with grotesque incompetence on the part of the taxi operators. Five-six years ago, when I asked for a receipt for an expense report, I got a hand-scribbled note. Running credit cards often required hand-based crank mechanisms. Autoplaying TV on the back of a seat that was billed unless you explicitly opted out. It was, in short, a scammy operatio…

> The advantage of Uber has nothing to do with price and everything to do with grotesque incompetence on the part of the taxi operators.

Which is why in Europe things like Hailonand MyTaxi are taking off. They put a level of indirection between you and the driver by handling the payment and receipt. They are great as a result. The rest of the uber experience I care a surprising little amount about.

Re: Uber's Failure in Japan

#54

Post by mantas »

mkagenius wrote: post #45
betadreamer wrote: post #44

The article has a point but didn't get it right. I'm a startup developer and my family runs a taxi business in Japan, and believe me I thought about making Uber for Japan the moment I heard about Uber, but I realized it's not going to work out. Here are my notes I jot down at that time. 1) People don't drive In US everyone drives, in fact you need one. But you see none of my friends in Japan own a car. The only peopl…

All the points are from the supply side. Maybe Japan will welcome a uber which drives itself?

Preferring cash payments and taxes already being good enough is not supply side. Once self-driving taxis are available, they won't be uber exclusive. More likely all taxis will become self driving. If uber wasn't in the market before, it won't become welcome just because.

In addition to that, part of taxis service is human powered. Like helping you get luggage in a trunk and providing local knowledge. A taxi driver in Japan once told me they make most by driving old people from grocery stores back home. Will self driving car have a robot helping them with the bags?

Re: Uber's Failure in Japan

#55

Post by 2bitencryption »

ajmurmann wrote: post #25
2bitencryption wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and, having taken taxis in Japan... they're honestly very decent. Much better than the taxis I've taken elsewhere. Partly because the roads are less congested, even in the heart of Tokyo, since so many take the train. I never found myself wishing I could take an Uber in Japan -- a taxi was always there when I needed it... and that was only if I wasn't near a train station, which was almost never.

The biggest culture shock coming back to the bay area from a long Japan vacation was the taxi from the airport to a nearby hotel. The day before out return we had a driver in Tokyo who had approached it hotel from the wrong direction and had to drive around the block to get us to the front entrance. We were happy to walk half a block but he was very embarrassed and insisted to drive us to the front door and took way…

Yeah, when it comes to services in Japan, they go REALLY hard. In the hotel I stayed in, there was always a team of people standing by the entrance to the lobby just to welcome you inside, or tell you to have a nice evening when you leave. They had other people at the elevators with the same job: greet the people who come out of the elevators.

When we missed the shuttle to the train station, the shuttle manager apologized profusely, like they had done something wrong, when really we had just showed up a few minutes late.

Re: Uber's Failure in Japan

#56

Post by arethuza »

icebraining wrote: post #52
privateersman wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that's why I don't understand the hype. In many countries Uber is just another taxi brand, one that's licensed by the local authorities. The only thing it has going for it is the app, but all their competitors have apps too. Plus, I've never had to use an app - I just call an automated number, press one digit and a taxi arrives at my door within a few minutes. If I'm using a mobile phone then the operator ans…

Maybe - but in many countries it isn't. In my European country, calling a cab means always talking to the operator (often after 2m ringing) and then waiting 10-30m. Around 10% of the time it never comes, so you'll have to call again. When it finally does, your reward is paying an extra fee for having called. Then there are the zones; your home is a bit outside the city? The meter will be running - at an increased rat…

Never had that problem here in Edinburgh - been using the same cab company for years (both personal and business). They have an app or an IVR system or an operator.

Never had a missed cab, cars are always very clean and drivers good. I honestly can't think of a single problem I've had with them in what must be 15+ years of regular use.

Re: Uber's Failure in Japan

#58

Post by mahyarm »

betadreamer wrote: post #44

The article has a point but didn't get it right. I'm a startup developer and my family runs a taxi business in Japan, and believe me I thought about making Uber for Japan the moment I heard about Uber, but I realized it's not going to work out. Here are my notes I jot down at that time. 1) People don't drive In US everyone drives, in fact you need one. But you see none of my friends in Japan own a car. The only peopl…

How big is smartphone penetration? Is the app based dispatch useful in japan or are they really everywhere? Are there normal taxi dispatch smartphone apps?

Re: Uber's Failure in Japan

#59

Post by unicornporn »

You know what, it's not going super well here in Sweden either. Can't say I'm sorry about that. There are some things I'd rather not "disrupt", one of these things is basic workers rights. I'd like to see Uber as masters of gamification. They've successfully gamified fast money, and screwing yourself (but perhaps mostly others) over in the long haul.

Re: Uber's Failure in Japan

#60

Post by blockshock »

In Japan, taxi services fall into broadly 2 categories, - large to mid size fleets 2000+ and - private 'kojin' taxis

There is yet another category commonly referred to 'izakaya' taxi, these are also private taxis who work together as a network to compete with the big players.

Things to know * all taxis are clean * some are spotless ie washed every morning * 75%+ are equipped with wireless radio * 90% of cars in general in japan have gps, so it should not come as a huge suprise to see taxis who have 2 units. * Most of the big fleets accept every credit card under the sun including certain cards from some processors not too popular elsewhere (JCB). Some accept nfc 'type' payments from several different incompatible processors. * In the good old days 90s - you could call a cab company and they would radio (motorola) a taxi to your location. Now the big companies have apps developed by 3rd party vendors which support points for free rides etc.

People in Tokyo prefer the subway because its quicker in most cases- So you are left with * people use cabs to get from pt a to pt b by making an on the spur of the moment decision. i see a cab i jump in. Uber would have a problem unless the fleet was huge from the get go.

* other people who 'plan' and use a cab can easily call one of the established players. Addresses are fairly resonably defined in tokyo and gps kits are excellect after having being engineered for 10+ years. Uber would have a problem because their software is not adding any value to what incubments are offering

* then there is this segment of people who use taxis for everything- thats where the izakaya taxis come in. They provide a first class experience using luxury grade cars (think lexus++) that are able to handle the longer distance rides, they might offer you a beer, tea etc. This is a premium service, you call the cab and he has you registered if youve used hiw before so he knows you by name. If hes busy enroute with another customer, he will just route you to his buddy. They mostly have 2 smart phones to help with this and they do this while driving with off the shelf apps well configured.

All factored in Uber's traditional model is challenged. But Uber hopefully has deep pockets, they should start by buying a small fleet and focus on certain/towns.

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