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Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

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Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#51

Post by zodiac »

bsimpson wrote: post #17

As a well-traveled cyclist, I yearn for the truely separated roadways my peers ride in other places. In Holland, for instance, their cycletrack treatment is closer to a special sidewalk for bicycles than a repainted stretch of highway. Each mode of transportation (walking, riding, driving, mass transit, etc.) has its own path. This separation of concerns (segmented by both mass and speed) makes getting around safer a…

> I've tried getting off my bike and asking people (as kindly as possible) to move, explaining how parking in the bike path puts me life at risk. The nicest response I've gotten was being told to go fuck myself

Wow, this makes me so angry. Is it possible to call the cops on them?

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#52

Post by bsimpson »

zodiac wrote: post #51
bsimpson wrote: post #17

As a well-traveled cyclist, I yearn for the truely separated roadways my peers ride in other places. In Holland, for instance, their cycletrack treatment is closer to a special sidewalk for bicycles than a repainted stretch of highway. Each mode of transportation (walking, riding, driving, mass transit, etc.) has its own path. This separation of concerns (segmented by both mass and speed) makes getting around safer a…

> I've tried getting off my bike and asking people (as kindly as possible) to move, explaining how parking in the bike path puts me life at risk. The nicest response I've gotten was being told to go fuck myself Wow, this makes me so angry. Is it possible to call the cops on them?

I think I've done it once or twice - usually not until after I get home though. Letting unhinged people know I'm threatening their anonymity is something I try to avoid.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#54

Post by apathy »

brokenmachine wrote: post #35
apathy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to blame non cyclists, they just have no fucking idea. Once you've seen it from the other side of the barrel it's hard to remember how you saw it beforehand.

It is not hard to blame drivers here in NSW because it is illegal to pass within 1m of a cyclist. Nobody ever gets fined though, cyclists still just get killed.

Gah. I'm sorry. That sucks.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#55

Post by brokenmachine »

wwalser wrote: post #41
brokenmachine wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In NSW it is illegal to pass within 1m of a cyclist. I ride to work, and every single day people ignore that rule. I have never seen anyone fined for it. Our police/government just doesn't care, and attitudes like yours don't help. Cycling on the road is legal and until it isn't, just saying, "I don't see how it's safe" is irrelevant. I also drive, but I'm capable of not losing my mind and putting other people's live…

I don't anymore, relocated, but I did commute for years in Sydney and I couldn't find a trace of unhelpful attitude in this person's post. They just stated facts. Didn't say that they agreed or disagreed. They didn't say that they passed people in an unsafe way or that they felt the need to or desire to. They just said that _people_ do. Which is true. We've both experienced it… https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12…

Reading it back, I did sound overly aggressive to the poster. I didn't mean that.

The attitude I was talking about is, "I don't see how it's safe because drivers can't get past".

The way I see it, the only ones in the wrong in that situation are the impatient drivers who are breaking the law by trying to pass when it is not legal or safe.

The main reason cycling isn't safe is because drivers are overtaking unsafely when they might be delayed by a cyclist.

People seem to think that it's acceptable for drivers to break road laws just because they are being inconvenienced.

This behaviour is not acceptable, and indeed is illegal (although unfortunately not enforced - thanks for protecting our safety NSWPolice!).

The post I was replying to made no mention of the fact that drivers are meant to exhibit some semblance of patience from time to time, and seemed to be saying that cyclists are unsafe on the road because they can't maintain a 70kph speed, when in reality cyclists are unsafe because drivers are breaking the law.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#56

Post by adrianratnapala »

brokenmachine wrote: post #30
shard972 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a driver it's the main reason I refuse to ride a bike, I don't want to die. Even here in perth that is generally trying to help bike riders I just don't see how it's safe to ride around at 20-30km when the speed limit is 70km and there isn't enough room to overtake without going into the other lane. I just don't see how you can be safe when people are trying to overtake you in giant utes going twice your speed try…

In NSW it is illegal to pass within 1m of a cyclist. I ride to work, and every single day people ignore that rule. I have never seen anyone fined for it. Our police/government just doesn't care, and attitudes like yours don't help. Cycling on the road is legal and until it isn't, just saying, "I don't see how it's safe" is irrelevant. I also drive, but I'm capable of not losing my mind and putting other people's live…

Now I cycle to work and recently let my drivers license lapse. But the 1m rule sounds draconian to me. It means drivers have to keep about two metres from the kerb. That's not always possible on Sydney roads.

Sure, if the cars are moving fast then I would like a wide space. But in heavier / slower traffic (which was the common case when I lived in London), then I only need a "lane" wide enough for me to ride through. And heck, usually I'm the one doing the overtaking.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#57

Post by rootusrootus »

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #50
Frondo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, just today I was biking down a hill in a segregated lane. Green lights ahead of me, all the way to the waterfront. Some guy in the crosswalk, going against the signal (I have green lights for several blocks), left to right across the street. I'm half a block away but I'm going downhill and going pretty fast. I yell, "Watch out!" He keeps moving, so I start to veer to the left to go around him to the left. THEN h…

Yep. Pedestrians, especially New Yorkers, are j-walkers. I spent the last 12 days in various places in Japan and boy, there are none of those except in places without crosswalks. It was weird!! But yes, best thing to do is be predictable if you're doing something (even if it is wrong). People sometimes think New Yorkers are crazy drivers. To the inexperienced it probably looks that way. However after driving here mos…

The 'be predictable if nothing else' advice is critical. Best piece of driving advice I ever got from my dad. I'm currently in Hyderabad on a business trip and the only reason there aren't constant wrecks and fatalities here is because the only rule in the chaos is be predictable.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#58

Post by falcolas »

DarkTree wrote: post #48
falcolas wrote: post #42

As a former bicyclist, and a current motorcyclist and "cager", let me give one piece of advice that has kept me alive to this day. Your safety and protection is entirely up to you. No government, painted lines or traffic cones are going to save you on the road. When you're on the road, the only thing that matters is "the right of weight". If you're hit by a car, and you're not in a protective cage of steel, it's not…

> Yeah, it's probably overly pessamistic; no, it's not fair. But I'm alive and uninjured. Don't you think that's a little bit of survivorship bias? I'm sure there are plenty of cyclist who have been killed who 100% agreed and rode in that way, but they obviously can't speak on the matter. Of course it is dangerous and potentially lethal when you get hit by a car, but how can you suggest that it's not beneficial to ha…

Would additional space for bikes hurt bikers? I think it depends. If there is enough room to add better bike lanes without affecting car traffic negatively, the it will probably help. But if cars are forced into smaller spaces, I think more cars "in a hurry" will disregard the lines in favor of a clear road. Sure, they will be in the wrong, but it won't help the dead cyclists any.

And places like SF, with their already bad car traffic and limited land? They would definitely fall in the latter case in my book.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#59

Post by elygre »

bigiain wrote: post #38
zo7 wrote: post #3

I don't think non-cyclists realize how much risk you take on when you ride in the city. In my town we really only have bike lanes on the two main roads that go up and down the bulk of the city, and they ride dangerously close to lines of parked cars. I was riding downhill once when someone opened their door in front of me without looking -- luckily I managed to get past, but had they opened it a few moments earlier I…

"Hey were you trying to kill me?" "Yeah, I was" And people wonder why revenge fantasy is so appealing: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mjh/spike.html (I would have at least turned to the kids and said "Hey did you hear that? Your Dad's an asshole!")

It's copyright 1989, but has "House Speaker Trump" as one of the villains!

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#60

Post by toomanybeersies »

bsimpson wrote: post #34
toomanybeersies wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're just starting to get separated bike lines in New Zealand, where the bike lane is on the other side of the parked cars, so the parked cars essentially make a barrier. It's not perfect, you can still get doored by the parked cars, but at least you aren't going to get run over at the same time.

We have those in the Park here. Passengers seem to be less trained to watch for bicycles than drivers, so I wonder if it's actually safer overall. But that's not the problem I'm pointing out above. So long as cars park in garages under houses and need to cross the sidewalk and cycletrack to get to the street, it will need to be physically possible for a car to cross the cycletrack. So long as that's true (without fre…

I think it's a bit different here because most of the places where we have separated cycle lanes tend to have driveways with enough space to park a car without sitting in the cycle lane.

I think that it is safer overall in that when you do get doored, it's a lot safer. Sort of like how red light cameras reduce fatal accidents, but increase fender benders.

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