Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco • Hacker News Board

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#41

Post by wwalser » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 3:44 AM UTC

brokenmachine wrote: post #30

shard972 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a driver it's the main reason I refuse to ride a bike, I don't want to die. Even here in perth that is generally trying to help bike riders I just don't see how it's safe to ride around at 20-30km when the speed limit is 70km and there isn't enough room to overtake without going into the other lane. I just don't see how you can be safe when people are trying to overtake you in giant utes going twice your speed try…

In NSW it is illegal to pass within 1m of a cyclist. I ride to work, and every single day people ignore that rule. I have never seen anyone fined for it. Our police/government just doesn't care, and attitudes like yours don't help. Cycling on the road is legal and until it isn't, just saying, "I don't see how it's safe" is irrelevant. I also drive, but I'm capable of not losing my mind and putting other people's live…

I don't anymore, relocated, but I did commute for years in Sydney and I couldn't find a trace of unhelpful attitude in this person's post. They just stated facts. Didn't say that they agreed or disagreed. They didn't say that they passed people in an unsafe way or that they felt the need to or desire to. They just said that _people_ do. Which is true. We've both experienced it…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12333894

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#42

Post by falcolas » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 3:45 AM UTC

As a former bicyclist, and a current motorcyclist and "cager", let me give one piece of advice that has kept me alive to this day. Your safety and protection is entirely up to you. No government, painted lines or traffic cones are going to save you on the road. When you're on the road, the only thing that matters is "the right of weight".

If you're hit by a car, and you're not in a protective cage of steel, it's not going to matter if the other person was in the right or the wrong. You're still dead.

If anything, these traffic cones are a dangerous placebo; making cyclists feel safer than they actually are in their interactions with cars. Want to actually be safe from cars when on the road? Ride in a cage of steel. Want to survive on two wheels? Ride as if every person in a car is intentionally trying to kill you.

Yeah, it's probably overly pessamistic; no, it's not fair. But I'm alive and uninjured.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#43

Post by kirrent » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 3:46 AM UTC

brokenmachine wrote: post #30

shard972 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a driver it's the main reason I refuse to ride a bike, I don't want to die. Even here in perth that is generally trying to help bike riders I just don't see how it's safe to ride around at 20-30km when the speed limit is 70km and there isn't enough room to overtake without going into the other lane. I just don't see how you can be safe when people are trying to overtake you in giant utes going twice your speed try…

In NSW it is illegal to pass within 1m of a cyclist. I ride to work, and every single day people ignore that rule. I have never seen anyone fined for it. Our police/government just doesn't care, and attitudes like yours don't help. Cycling on the road is legal and until it isn't, just saying, "I don't see how it's safe" is irrelevant. I also drive, but I'm capable of not losing my mind and putting other people's live…

Make sure you carry photo ID though. That actually can attract a fine.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#44

Post by SomeHacker44 » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 3:46 AM UTC

As a life-long New Yorker (Manhattan and more recently Brooklyn) I just don't understand why anyone would ever ride a bike in NYC, period. I even stopped rollerblading in NYC when some asshole driving backwards (presumably to get a parking spot) nearly killed me and did knock me silly.

I have a motorcycle license I got one summer when I had free time. I learned that cars and pedestrians are your enemy, and that you will probably regret being a motorcyclist eventually. So I quickly stopped.

The simple answer is to not bike in NYC, or get rid of cars in NYC. Although I have moved to Brooklyn, I think the "get rid of cars" is in Manhattan is a great idea.

But, if we must bike, by all means, let's get segregated bike lanes. I have seen them in Union Square, around Prospect Park, and other places. BUT!

That said, bikes are worse than cars IMO in yielding right of way to pedestrians. I was nearly killed by a high speed biker IN A CROSSWALK ACROSS A SEGREGATED BIKE LANE outside the Intrepid museum nearly a month ago, and the moron had the gall to yell at me as he barely missed me to watch where I was going. Literally two seconds later nearly the same thing happens with another biker. Insane.

Furthermore, bikes don't remotely follow the rules of the road. Stop lights? Ignored. One way streets - or even one way bike lanes - ignored. No riding on sidewalks? Well, mostly followed. Pfew.

As a pedestrian, I fear bikes more than cars. They are silent, they are fearless (if they weren't they would not ride like this), and they don't care about pedestrians.

Personally, I'd rather get rid of bikes entirely, or at least put a cop at every corner writing expensive NYC moving violations to each bicyclist when they inevitably break the law. A million citations a day would be fine by me, and would help pay for more shared infrastructure like subways, bus lanes, and, yes, even segregated bicycle lanes.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#45

Post by Frondo » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 3:59 AM UTC

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #44

As a life-long New Yorker (Manhattan and more recently Brooklyn) I just don't understand why anyone would ever ride a bike in NYC, period. I even stopped rollerblading in NYC when some asshole driving backwards (presumably to get a parking spot) nearly killed me and did knock me silly. I have a motorcycle license I got one summer when I had free time. I learned that cars and pedestrians are your enemy, and that you w…

Heh, just today I was biking down a hill in a segregated lane. Green lights ahead of me, all the way to the waterfront.

Some guy in the crosswalk, going against the signal (I have green lights for several blocks), left to right across the street. I'm half a block away but I'm going downhill and going pretty fast. I yell, "Watch out!"

He keeps moving, so I start to veer to the left to go around him to the left. THEN he stops, so I yell again, "Keep moving already!" I veer harder left to get around him.

I still have green lights, he's going against the signal.

He steps backwards!!! Now I'm going to hit him for sure, so I brake hard, skidding down the hill, veering now well out of the segregated lane, into a car lane, barely avoiding a full-on collision. My leg hits his bag, and of course I cuss up a blue streak.

I don't get it. I come to a complete stop at stop signs wherever there's any traffic, and I always slow down because cars blow through them constantly.

I never cross against lights, and when I cross with lights, I do so with caution because cars blow through those, too.

I do see more and more bikes on the roads, though, which makes me happy about cars learning to share the roads a bit. We cyclists pay taxes, too, of course.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#46

Post by bigiain » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 4:03 AM UTC

brokenmachine wrote: post #30

shard972 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a driver it's the main reason I refuse to ride a bike, I don't want to die. Even here in perth that is generally trying to help bike riders I just don't see how it's safe to ride around at 20-30km when the speed limit is 70km and there isn't enough room to overtake without going into the other lane. I just don't see how you can be safe when people are trying to overtake you in giant utes going twice your speed try…

In NSW it is illegal to pass within 1m of a cyclist. I ride to work, and every single day people ignore that rule. I have never seen anyone fined for it. Our police/government just doesn't care, and attitudes like yours don't help. Cycling on the road is legal and until it isn't, just saying, "I don't see how it's safe" is irrelevant. I also drive, but I'm capable of not losing my mind and putting other people's live…

Yeah, but the last few weeks they've been heavily enforcing their new-ish $375 penalty for not wearing a helmet... Who would've guessed that NSWPolice would selectively apply the new laws and penalties???

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#47

Post by pacala » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 4:08 AM UTC

shard972 wrote: post #8

zo7 wrote: post #3

I don't think non-cyclists realize how much risk you take on when you ride in the city. In my town we really only have bike lanes on the two main roads that go up and down the bulk of the city, and they ride dangerously close to lines of parked cars. I was riding downhill once when someone opened their door in front of me without looking -- luckily I managed to get past, but had they opened it a few moments earlier I…

As a driver it's the main reason I refuse to ride a bike, I don't want to die. Even here in perth that is generally trying to help bike riders I just don't see how it's safe to ride around at 20-30km when the speed limit is 70km and there isn't enough room to overtake without going into the other lane. I just don't see how you can be safe when people are trying to overtake you in giant utes going twice your speed try…

The speed differential is what make me scratch my head as well, from both safety and traffic engineering perspective. In the USA lots of mountain highways have turnouts and "Slow vehicles must use turnouts" signs [0]. On the flip side, once in a city, a single cyclist is entitled to slow down everybody else, traffic fluidity be damned.

[0] http://www.aaroads.com/forum/?topic=12036.0

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#48

Post by DarkTree » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 4:12 AM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #42

As a former bicyclist, and a current motorcyclist and "cager", let me give one piece of advice that has kept me alive to this day. Your safety and protection is entirely up to you. No government, painted lines or traffic cones are going to save you on the road. When you're on the road, the only thing that matters is "the right of weight". If you're hit by a car, and you're not in a protective cage of steel, it's not…

> Yeah, it's probably overly pessamistic; no, it's not fair. But I'm alive and uninjured.

Don't you think that's a little bit of survivorship bias? I'm sure there are plenty of cyclist who have been killed who 100% agreed and rode in that way, but they obviously can't speak on the matter.

Of course it is dangerous and potentially lethal when you get hit by a car, but how can you suggest that it's not beneficial to have measures in place that at least attempt to protect cyclist. It makes cyclist 'feel' safer, because it is in fact safer. Look at countries like the Netherlands that have excellent cycling lanes and safety measures. It makes drivers more aware that there are cyclist around them, and urges them to be more cognizant of their surroundings.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#49

Post by santaclaus » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 4:12 AM UTC

zo7 wrote: post #3

I don't think non-cyclists realize how much risk you take on when you ride in the city. In my town we really only have bike lanes on the two main roads that go up and down the bulk of the city, and they ride dangerously close to lines of parked cars. I was riding downhill once when someone opened their door in front of me without looking -- luckily I managed to get past, but had they opened it a few moments earlier I…

> I managed to confront the driver at the next intersection, "Hey were you trying to kill me?" "Yeah, I was" (he had two kids in the car too)

Even in the fairly bike friendly city of Portland, OR I've had drivers harass me. I had a dude nearly clip me, pull a u-turn at the next intersection, come back around, turn around again, and tailgate me while blaring his horn. He rolls down his window, yells at me for riding on the road (I was in a bike lane), all the while his family is in the car...

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#50

Post by SomeHacker44 » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 4:12 AM UTC

Frondo wrote: post #45

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #44

As a life-long New Yorker (Manhattan and more recently Brooklyn) I just don't understand why anyone would ever ride a bike in NYC, period. I even stopped rollerblading in NYC when some asshole driving backwards (presumably to get a parking spot) nearly killed me and did knock me silly. I have a motorcycle license I got one summer when I had free time. I learned that cars and pedestrians are your enemy, and that you w…

Heh, just today I was biking down a hill in a segregated lane. Green lights ahead of me, all the way to the waterfront. Some guy in the crosswalk, going against the signal (I have green lights for several blocks), left to right across the street. I'm half a block away but I'm going downhill and going pretty fast. I yell, "Watch out!" He keeps moving, so I start to veer to the left to go around him to the left. THEN h…

Yep. Pedestrians, especially New Yorkers, are j-walkers. I spent the last 12 days in various places in Japan and boy, there are none of those except in places without crosswalks. It was weird!!

But yes, best thing to do is be predictable if you're doing something (even if it is wrong).

People sometimes think New Yorkers are crazy drivers. To the inexperienced it probably looks that way. However after driving here most of my life it's just that we learn how all the other New Yorker drivers will react to what's ahead of them so we can react, in a sort of organized chaos. Sometimes, anyway. And we know to give out of state plates and certain vehicles extra "unpredictability" points. It doesn't always help (like when a moron Georgia plate minivan driver decided to merge directly into me at the Brooklyn Bridge entrance from southbound FDR despite being on the wrong side of a solid/dashed lane marker, back was only one lane to the bridge. And then not pull over!!!), though.

Even though I am a car owner and driver I would still be an advocate of limiting cars in the city.