Flip the stick • Hacker News Board

Re: Flip the stick

#51

Post by evansolomon » Tue, Mar 30, 2010, 11:42 PM UTC

lsc wrote: post #48

evansolomon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am admittedly not primarily technical, but I don't see that as relevant here. If someone actually has a legitimate way to add value to the person they're asking for help from, then that's great. Often that's not going to be the case though, and trying to fake that is (for me) a recipe for disaster. To go back to the example of offering an idea to help with whatever, that's really just going to be a waste of time fo…

"if a less experienced person wants my help, the best way to get it is to ask an interesting question in a way that shows you have made experience-appropriate progress solving the problem yourself. " So, I'm not trying to say a less experienced person should come up with something to try to help the more experienced person; I'm saying that if a less experienced person wants me to help them, they should show that they…

"you don't flatter technical people by complementing them; that just makes us feel weird"

Honestly it sounds like we are very nearly on the same page, though this quote is a bit odd to me. I don't think it's fair to define "technical people" by saying that compliments make them feel weird. I should point out that I'm not the one that has talked about flattering as a tactic.

I think we completely agree on having something interesting to talk about as a helpful quality.

Re: Flip the stick

#52

Post by gvb » Wed, Mar 31, 2010, 1:00 AM UTC

davidw wrote: post #21

In a lot of cases, the guy at the other end of the stick is going to do his damndest to make sure you stay where you are, because he likes being wealthy/in charge/whatever.

The goal isn't to switch ends with the guy holding the "clean" end, it is to find all the other people who are sick of getting the shitty end of the stick, and then provide good service to them.

Pretty soon the guy offering the shitty end will wonder where all his consumers[1] went.

[1] I hate that term. It invariably is a signal that whatever is being offered is shitty.

Re: Flip the stick

#53

Post by pw0ncakes » Wed, Mar 31, 2010, 2:01 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #47

pw0ncakes wrote: post #40

Good story, absolutely horrible generalization. "Shitty sticks" are usually a result of disadvantageous power dynamics, often set in place by the mistakes of previous generations, and therefore not so easily flippable, given the massive number of people who benefit from keeping them in position. Take, for example, the relationship between VCs and entrepreneurs. VCs make entrepreneurs pay legal expenses, often ask for…

> That's, without debate, a shitty stick. The simplistic solution, "become a VC", doesn't make any sense. 1. Most entrepreneurs don't want to be VCs, and 2. most of them can't join that club. Well, the examples Derek gave were of starting a bank or becoming a distributor, but that's not the only way to flip the stick. When you've got a rough idea, an unproven business plan, and some smart but unproven people you're g…

There's usually a lot more smart-but-unproven people with hazy unproven ideas that want financing than there is venture money to go around. Hence, bad terms.

Right, but bad VC terms shouldn't even exist. There are a lot of bad ideas out there and a few good ones. VCs are "supposed" to be the ones who can pick out the good deals; that's why they get paid their high salaries. If the deal is good, the terms should be good because the VC wants the founders to have high morale and a successful company. If the deal is bad, the VC shouldn't fund it at all.

I wouldn't be insulted or offended if a VC rejected me. I'd expect quite a few rejections. Multiple liquidation preferences are an insult; it says "we think you're fucking pathetic; here are some scraps".