Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

tech.mit.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 281 posts

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#51

Post by saint_fiasco »

brodawg wrote: post #15
gravypod wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I wish there were major respected trade schools that taught CS/Software Engineering/IT/IS. The university environment, in my opinion, is adverse to the development of good CS knowledge. Most of us on here, I'd say, have learned through trying and experimentation and that is why we are fairly good at what we proclaim to do. University doesn't foster that kind of understanding. I also hate that currently I ne…

I think you're missing the point here. Those physics classes will teach you to think about problems abstractly. In my experience, my knowledge of physics has helped me think about algorithmic problems significantly. Even if you don't use the physics itself, it's good to learn. The accounting might not help you so much for CS, but it could be useful. And a few liberal arts classes are always good for breadth of educat…

>Those physics classes will teach you to think about problems abstractly

So do the classes on computer science and algorithms. The reason universities choose to teach those things using physics classes instead of logic class or algorithms class are just historical accidents.

>And a few liberal arts classes are always good for breadth of education, and making you realize that you can always pick up a good book and read it

You can get that for almost free at a bookstore or a library.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#52

Post by matt_wulfeck »

Pharaoh2 wrote: post #27
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #19

We don't need a "new" university system. We need to update our expectation about higher education and the work force. Let's start but dropping our mantra that everyone should go to college. Here's another: Maybe not everyone should even go to high school.

But everyone should go to high school. Hell, if you aren't going to college I do hope there is an extended high school. I don't care if its taxpayer sponsored but even high school is not enough to foster a critical thinking process. I picked that up somewhere between high school and end of college. Some people may be faster than me but that skill is really important. Either that, or you don't get to vote. Edit: The l…

Why do you think the only environment people can learn these skills is sitting at a desk for extended periods of time?

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#53

Post by paulojreis »

Amezarak wrote: post #41
paulojreis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not U.S. based, so I don't have a total understanding of the whole "prestigious" university vs. community college debate. However, I find it hard to believe that they teach basically the same thing. I'd believe that their curricula are essentially the same, but that's what's "on paper", so to speak. Even if they're both accredited, wouldn't better faculty lead to better teaching? Or better research programs and p…

> Even if they're both accredited, wouldn't better faculty lead to better teaching? No. Generally, at research institutions, faculty are not chosen for their teaching ability. They are chosen for their research background. They are often horrifically bad teachers, if they even teach the class at all and don't just assign it to a TA. It also doesn't take a world-renowned genius to teach an undergraduate or even a Mast…

I can see your point, but I believe this roughly depends on the education level we're talking about. I did my degree quite a few years ago, but finished my PhD last year. At least in the higher-level, when "learning" isn't exactly the classroom-like experience, I'd rather have a brilliant researcher but lousy teacher as a professor (instead of the opposite).

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#54

Post by david927 »

dhimes wrote: post #31
gravypod wrote: post #4

The only point of a modern day university is that they are (a) exclusive, and (b) "guarantee" that students "know" what they are "taught". That's at least what people who hire think. I remember someone saying "It wouldn't matter if MIT only taught basket weaving as long as they still had such a thorough selection process". This holds true here. People only care about the pedigree of your degree, it's substance comes…

"guarantee" that students "know" what they are "taught" That used to be the case, but now corporations require you to pass their own exam before they hire you. Let that sink in a moment. No longer are the universities taken at their word about their product. For some of you it has never been any different, but this change came about more or less when I was teaching at university/college. Some of us saw this as a quit…

It's surprising that it's taking so long. The wealthiest have always found ways to preserve their wealth and Ivy League institutions have played a role in that. Take some smart people, a lot of people that are good at fitting the mold that looks best, mix your rich kids in there and call the paint one color.

Remember, George W. Bush (all politics aside, just looking at him in terms of intellectual prowess) graduated from Harvard and got his M.B.A from Yale. That's one easily identifiable example but you can find many. And then you ask yourself, if you can take a bus that size through a fortress wall, can you still call it a fortress wall? And then it's clear for what it is -- decoration. Worse: it's signalling, which is the opposite of a meritocracy.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#55

Post by such_a_casual »

paulojreis wrote: post #44

Maybe I'm wrong - and I kind of hope I am, as there's a noble motive behind this movement - but I always feel that people are focusing too much on IT and the stories of a guy who became a full-blown IT professional learning by himself, Google and open courseware. I think this kind of approach to learning works for IT, because a) the logistics to learn it are easier to handle; but mostly because b) most IT jobs actual…

So all of those people with psychology and business degrees are going into jobs that require "degree deserving knowledge"? If you're going to say something special about a particular field, at least compare it to something else otherwise the statement is meaningless.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#56

Post by bobby_9x »

The current system was created for a reason: because for most people, it works.

I ran a language learning group for a couple of years and we tried many different styles of learning.

With no structure, most people flounder. Unless you already learned the material and just need it for review, it really doesn't work well.

The best was complete structure: tests, lesson plans, and homework. Most people are passive. They want a teacher to lead them and guide them through the learning process.

No structure will work with people that have the same discipline required to start a company, because they don't need someone telling them what to do.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#57

Post by dragonwriter »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #2

Sounds like a hacker house. Why call it a university if it doesn't grant degrees?

Because "universities" are primarily about research -- which is why that's the main criteria in hiring faculty -- and secondarily about credentialing students by granting degrees, and this new experiment is jettisoning the secondary function (leaving project completion -- including, e.g., research publications) as, apparently, the main concrete résumé-applicable output.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#59

Post by jsprogrammer »

gravypod wrote: post #11
legutierr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this reasoning, you should put a list of the universities you were admitted to on your resume, not the university that you actually attended. Under these terms, what's the difference between going to Harvard for a couple of semesters and dropping out, and getting admitted to Harvard but deciding to attend Dartmouth instead?

If you have not joined the university you are not part of the "in" group. There is a perception among people that if you attend a "prestigious" university that you are smarter than someone who attends a community college. I find that crazy. Both teach basically the same thing. If they are both accredited, then it is almost indistinguishable. Who would you think is smarter off the cuff, a Harvard graduate, or someone…

>Who would you think is smarter off the cuff, a Harvard graduate, or someone who attended an accredited community college and followed it with a masters from an accredited online school?

"Smarter off the cuff"? After reading about Harvard's interview and admissions process, combined with their 98% 6-year graduation rate, I wouldn't think much about a Harvard graduate without speaking to them.

>I'm sad to say that I've been programmed to assume that the Harvard graduate is smarter.

Programmed by who?

>It is just a bias that we are all taught as we are young.

Whom are "we"?

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#60

Post by ausjke »

bobby_9x wrote: post #56

The current system was created for a reason: because for most people, it works. I ran a language learning group for a couple of years and we tried many different styles of learning. With no structure, most people flounder. Unless you already learned the material and just need it for review, it really doesn't work well. The best was complete structure: tests, lesson plans, and homework. Most people are passive. They w…

"most people are passive", that's probably true and why we have lessons for all subjects for the majority.
Post reply on HN