Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

tech.mit.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 281 posts

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#41

Post by Amezarak »

paulojreis wrote: post #28
gravypod wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have not joined the university you are not part of the "in" group. There is a perception among people that if you attend a "prestigious" university that you are smarter than someone who attends a community college. I find that crazy. Both teach basically the same thing. If they are both accredited, then it is almost indistinguishable. Who would you think is smarter off the cuff, a Harvard graduate, or someone…

I'm not U.S. based, so I don't have a total understanding of the whole "prestigious" university vs. community college debate. However, I find it hard to believe that they teach basically the same thing. I'd believe that their curricula are essentially the same, but that's what's "on paper", so to speak. Even if they're both accredited, wouldn't better faculty lead to better teaching? Or better research programs and p…

> Even if they're both accredited, wouldn't better faculty lead to better teaching?

No. Generally, at research institutions, faculty are not chosen for their teaching ability. They are chosen for their research background. They are often horrifically bad teachers, if they even teach the class at all and don't just assign it to a TA.

It also doesn't take a world-renowned genius to teach an undergraduate or even a Master's program. It takes someone with a very solid grounding in the subject, which should be any graduate, who also happens to be a great (preferably enthusiastic) communicator.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#42

Post by gravypod »

paulojreis wrote: post #28
gravypod wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have not joined the university you are not part of the "in" group. There is a perception among people that if you attend a "prestigious" university that you are smarter than someone who attends a community college. I find that crazy. Both teach basically the same thing. If they are both accredited, then it is almost indistinguishable. Who would you think is smarter off the cuff, a Harvard graduate, or someone…

I'm not U.S. based, so I don't have a total understanding of the whole "prestigious" university vs. community college debate. However, I find it hard to believe that they teach basically the same thing. I'd believe that their curricula are essentially the same, but that's what's "on paper", so to speak. Even if they're both accredited, wouldn't better faculty lead to better teaching? Or better research programs and p…

I know this is more anecdotal, but I don't see that at least where I attend.

My school allows transfer credit from all of the neighboring community college.

I also have friends who attended my same high school who are attending community collage. We have traded notes on classes and it seems like we do learn the same material.

The only difference is that my school packs every class with 20+ people while their school has at max 15 people per class.

This is also very anecdotal but the teachers that I have met from their school are also most focused on helping students rather than getting all of their hours of teaching done for the week so they can continue their research.

Again, this is only my experience.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#43

Post by gravypod »

Amezarak wrote: post #41
paulojreis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not U.S. based, so I don't have a total understanding of the whole "prestigious" university vs. community college debate. However, I find it hard to believe that they teach basically the same thing. I'd believe that their curricula are essentially the same, but that's what's "on paper", so to speak. Even if they're both accredited, wouldn't better faculty lead to better teaching? Or better research programs and p…

> Even if they're both accredited, wouldn't better faculty lead to better teaching? No. Generally, at research institutions, faculty are not chosen for their teaching ability. They are chosen for their research background. They are often horrifically bad teachers, if they even teach the class at all and don't just assign it to a TA. It also doesn't take a world-renowned genius to teach an undergraduate or even a Mast…

> No. Generally, at research institutions, faculty are not chosen for their teaching ability. They are chosen for their research background. They are often horrifically bad teachers, if they even teach the class at all and don't just assign it to a TA.

I will have to say that I have had a few, select few, of those few bad teachers.

As a TA, I can also say that I am thankful that my professor doesn't stick the load of our lecture work on me, but I have heard from many other TAs that this does happen. From what I understand, I'm VERY lucky that I am working with am amazing teacher.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#44

Post by paulojreis »

Maybe I'm wrong - and I kind of hope I am, as there's a noble motive behind this movement - but I always feel that people are focusing too much on IT and the stories of a guy who became a full-blown IT professional learning by himself, Google and open courseware.

I think this kind of approach to learning works for IT, because a) the logistics to learn it are easier to handle; but mostly because b) most IT jobs actually don't require a degree - or "degree-deserving" knowlege; most programming is "trade-school"-like knowledge.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#45

Post by gravypod »

dhimes wrote: post #31
gravypod wrote: post #4

The only point of a modern day university is that they are (a) exclusive, and (b) "guarantee" that students "know" what they are "taught". That's at least what people who hire think. I remember someone saying "It wouldn't matter if MIT only taught basket weaving as long as they still had such a thorough selection process". This holds true here. People only care about the pedigree of your degree, it's substance comes…

"guarantee" that students "know" what they are "taught" That used to be the case, but now corporations require you to pass their own exam before they hire you. Let that sink in a moment. No longer are the universities taken at their word about their product. For some of you it has never been any different, but this change came about more or less when I was teaching at university/college. Some of us saw this as a quit…

It's good to know that the teachers/professors who still care are aware of how bad things have gotten.

Do you, as a former/current educator, see things changing in the future?

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#47

Post by logfromblammo »

gravypod wrote: post #7
skizm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly it probably makes it more acceptable to the "everyone needs to go to college" crowd. Trade schools have been around for a while, but for some reason people think you need a "university degree" to get anywhere. I assume they are trying to bridge that mental gap by using similar language to that of traditional colleges / universities. Also "trade schools" and / or specialty schools rarely have the same social…

Honestly, I wish there were major respected trade schools that taught CS/Software Engineering/IT/IS. The university environment, in my opinion, is adverse to the development of good CS knowledge. Most of us on here, I'd say, have learned through trying and experimentation and that is why we are fairly good at what we proclaim to do. University doesn't foster that kind of understanding. I also hate that currently I ne…

Standardized tests can get you out of most "breadth requirements". That's how I picked up minors in both chemistry and cognitive science.

Had I known then what I know now, I would have skipped even more of the fluff and spent my last two years splitting my time between classes and internships instead of learning additional facts and skills that ultimately had no marketable value.

I can count on zero hands the number of times I have profited by taking those university classes not directly relevant to abstract mathematics, computer software, or electronics hardware.

The supposed value of "well rounded graduates and alumni" seems very much like self-serving propaganda now. How about instead of spending three hours a week writing literary analyses of famous books, the university sponsors and organizes three mandatory hours of weekly networking events with real workers from relevant industries? That would have been worth the tuition. To this day, I still can't understand why anyone would want to read _Walden Two_ instead of doing something more useful, like separating and categorizing all the marshmallows from a box of Lucky Charms, or removing potential airway blockages in the nasal passages with the fingers.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#49

Post by wfo »

gravypod wrote: post #7
skizm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly it probably makes it more acceptable to the "everyone needs to go to college" crowd. Trade schools have been around for a while, but for some reason people think you need a "university degree" to get anywhere. I assume they are trying to bridge that mental gap by using similar language to that of traditional colleges / universities. Also "trade schools" and / or specialty schools rarely have the same social…

Honestly, I wish there were major respected trade schools that taught CS/Software Engineering/IT/IS. The university environment, in my opinion, is adverse to the development of good CS knowledge. Most of us on here, I'd say, have learned through trying and experimentation and that is why we are fairly good at what we proclaim to do. University doesn't foster that kind of understanding. I also hate that currently I ne…

"Good CS knowledge" isn't 'learning git'. It's mathematics, theory of computation, recursion theory and type theory and PL, compilers, complexity theory and algorithms, advanced data structures, concurrency and distributed systems etc. If you know these, you should be able to pick up more applied subjects on the job quickly.

You very much need a university to teach you this.

Social sciences will make you a more well-rounded person able to see past just technical concerns.

Physics and social sciences will help you understand the world around you.

And it sounds like you want university to help you write business logic for accounting software, so an accounting class will do you well.

If all you want to do is write simple code for say CRUD applications then you're right University isn't the place to learn that and a trade school would be better. In tech you already have the best trade school in the universe, the internet, and the best resume in the universe, a github.

We have learned a long time ago that letting students decide to study exactly what they want when they are 18 gives you lopsided uneducated graduates who know a tiny bit about the things they were good at already; being well-rounded is EXTREMELY valuable, even more valuable than being an excellent programmer even in tech. The hard parts of software in practice are not writing the code, they are understanding what the user/client wants and how to translate that from vague fuzzy human communication to something specific and technical.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#50

Post by sologoub »

gravypod wrote: post #7
skizm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly it probably makes it more acceptable to the "everyone needs to go to college" crowd. Trade schools have been around for a while, but for some reason people think you need a "university degree" to get anywhere. I assume they are trying to bridge that mental gap by using similar language to that of traditional colleges / universities. Also "trade schools" and / or specialty schools rarely have the same social…

Honestly, I wish there were major respected trade schools that taught CS/Software Engineering/IT/IS. The university environment, in my opinion, is adverse to the development of good CS knowledge. Most of us on here, I'd say, have learned through trying and experimentation and that is why we are fairly good at what we proclaim to do. University doesn't foster that kind of understanding. I also hate that currently I ne…

The accounting and other non-concentration classes are meant to give you a broader base of knowledge and better prepare you for adult life/career. Understanding basic principles of account is pretty important, if less fun.

While this not realistic, if people were better educated about finance and understood that there really is no free lunch, the 2008 financial crisis wouldn't be as bad. Unfortunately, human nature is to say that this time it's different...

Post reply on HN