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Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

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Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#51

Post by bluedevil2k »

rudolf0 wrote: post #47
bluedevil2k wrote: post #21

SSRI's in my opinion are not the future of antidepressants. They work by indiscriminately increasing serotonin levels in the synapse, thereby activating every single serotonin receptor (5-HT). While you get the anti-depressant effect by increasing the activation at the 5-HT1 receptor, you also get the negative side effects of SSRI's since it activates 5-HT2c receptor (weight gain), 5-HT3 receptor (nausea), and sleep…

Also keep in mind that depression isn't always caused by serotonin issues or remediated by increasing serotonin (which is somewhat redundant with this article, though I think the article paints serotonin too negatively). For example, if someone has bipolar disorder (or similar issues), they may have fairly standard serotonin concentration and receptor activation, but an SSRI may not help much with their depression.

True, but the thought is that the feelings of worthlessness, hopelessness, even suicide are seratonin related. There are other types of depression like "don't enjoy things I used to like, lack mental acuity" that may be dopamine related. And "mopey, lack energy" which may be noradrenaline related.

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#53

Post by rudolf0 »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #51
rudolf0 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also keep in mind that depression isn't always caused by serotonin issues or remediated by increasing serotonin (which is somewhat redundant with this article, though I think the article paints serotonin too negatively). For example, if someone has bipolar disorder (or similar issues), they may have fairly standard serotonin concentration and receptor activation, but an SSRI may not help much with their depression.

True, but the thought is that the feelings of worthlessness, hopelessness, even suicide are seratonin related. There are other types of depression like "don't enjoy things I used to like, lack mental acuity" that may be dopamine related. And "mopey, lack energy" which may be noradrenaline related.

>True, but the thought is that the feelings of worthlessness, hopelessness, even suicide are seratonin related.

Not necessarily true. People on SSRIs can still want to commit suicide after serotonin rebounds and is at a stable level.

I think complex feelings like despair and self-hatred can't be explained by just a single neurotransmitter. Serotonin likely plays a role here, but it's not the only component.

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#54

Post by rudolf0 »

NickM wrote: post #33

I've noticed a strong pop-psych trend these days of referring to one's own feelings or experiences in terms of neurotransmitters. e.g. "I'm hooked on the dopamine rush of such-and-such activity," "I'm feeling blue today, my serotonin must be low," etc. This drives me crazy. It's pure pseudoscience, and I hear it from people who should know better. Scientifically, we have very little idea what chemicals are actually b…

>doesn't necessarily stimulate any sort of direct pleasurable feeling as people often infer.

Dopamine is very complex and acts on different receptors to achieve varying effects, but a sudden spike in dopamine concentration in many parts of the brain, like the nucleus accumbens, will usually result in a pleasurable feeling. This can be seen in people with dopamine-related disorders, like bipolar, and dopamine-releasing substances like amphetamine.

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#55

Post by DanBC »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #41
steve-howard wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My "discontinuation syndrome" was coming off desvenlafaxine. My access to it was suddenly taken away so I had no choice but to sit through the brain zaps for probably a week or two. You can't be sure how long it's going to last and that shit is as unpleasant as it gets.

This is why you need to taper off the drugs over 4 weeks. If it takes 4 weeks to start working, it makes sense it should take your brain the same amount of time to work properly without them.

Coming off venlafaxine is considerably more unpleasant than going on venlafaxine, even with correct titration up and down.

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#56

Post by DanBC »

carleverett wrote: post #32
Raphmedia wrote: post #26

After feeling very down, so much that I didn't felt like myself, I started to experiment with herbal supplements. Valerian to sleep, but my problem wasn't lack of sleep. St John's Wort for mood, but I didn't feel moody. I tried 5-htp, which from my understanding is a precursor to the biosynthesis of Serotonin. The effect was immediate. I felt light headed, buzzed even. I felt as if I had suddenly woken up in a bright…

Relevant part of this comment: "I am no brain scientist." You probably could have had the same effect from a sugar pill.

that's an unnecessarily mean way to make a reasonable point.

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#57

Post by rudolf0 »

carleverett wrote: post #45
Raphmedia wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you claim this? From what I have read 5-Hydroxytryptophan seem like a widely accepted supplement for issues with Serotonin and/or depression and mood. The only articles that I have found that say it might not be of use are studies that simply say that 5-HTP is better than placebo but that we can't say more yet because of lack of researches. Edit: and possible heart valves issues if you do not take it correc…

Admittedly my doubts are solely based on the fact that I see the 5-HTP next to the fish oil pills and other non-FDA approved supplements at the pharmacy. It fits into the profiled of what I consider "alternative medicine," and generally I agree with the idea that if alternative medicine actually worked, it would be called medicine. You've done more research than me though. I'll defer to your judgment here.

5-HTP and omega 3 fatty acids (fish oil pills) are not "alternative medicine" supplements. They're regular medicine supplements. It's believed most people are probably deficient in omega 3, unless they eat a lot of fish.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3415362/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17392137

In my opinion, the "alternative medicine" label shouldn't be thrown around recklessly at substances that clearly have psychoactive properties and strong theoretical or proven mechanisms of action. They may be insufficiently researched regarding their potential treatment of specific conditions, but you shouldn't throw them in the same boat as homeopathy or acupuncture or reiki.

I think 5-HTP probably isn't a suitable supplement to treat depression in the long term (risk of downregulation and cardiac issues), but it's definitely one form of treatment for many people.

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#58

Post by Raphmedia »

carleverett wrote: post #45
Raphmedia wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you claim this? From what I have read 5-Hydroxytryptophan seem like a widely accepted supplement for issues with Serotonin and/or depression and mood. The only articles that I have found that say it might not be of use are studies that simply say that 5-HTP is better than placebo but that we can't say more yet because of lack of researches. Edit: and possible heart valves issues if you do not take it correc…

Admittedly my doubts are solely based on the fact that I see the 5-HTP next to the fish oil pills and other non-FDA approved supplements at the pharmacy. It fits into the profiled of what I consider "alternative medicine," and generally I agree with the idea that if alternative medicine actually worked, it would be called medicine. You've done more research than me though. I'll defer to your judgment here.

It must depend on where you live and what kind of stores sell those supplements around you.

I purchased this bottle of 5-HTP at a pharmacy in the health supplements aisle next to vitamins and other products such as melatonin. At this pharmacy chain, this aisle is as important big and prominent as any regular medecine aisle. If you ask for over the counter medecine, there are chances the pharmacist will refer you to this very aisle (melatonin for sleep, etc.)

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#59

Post by dustingetz »

Raphmedia wrote: post #26

After feeling very down, so much that I didn't felt like myself, I started to experiment with herbal supplements. Valerian to sleep, but my problem wasn't lack of sleep. St John's Wort for mood, but I didn't feel moody. I tried 5-htp, which from my understanding is a precursor to the biosynthesis of Serotonin. The effect was immediate. I felt light headed, buzzed even. I felt as if I had suddenly woken up in a bright…

PSA for people to be careful with 5-HTP, it can be dangerous to stack with various prescription medications and if you're taking it OTC you need to remember to disclose it to your doctor

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#60

Post by Raphmedia »

dustingetz wrote: post #59
Raphmedia wrote: post #26

After feeling very down, so much that I didn't felt like myself, I started to experiment with herbal supplements. Valerian to sleep, but my problem wasn't lack of sleep. St John's Wort for mood, but I didn't feel moody. I tried 5-htp, which from my understanding is a precursor to the biosynthesis of Serotonin. The effect was immediate. I felt light headed, buzzed even. I felt as if I had suddenly woken up in a bright…

PSA for people to be careful with 5-HTP, it can be dangerous to stack with various prescription medications and if you're taking it OTC you need to remember to disclose it to your doctor

Yes!

Also, do NOT mix 5-HTP with St-John's Wort (don't mix St-John's Wort with anything, really.).

You may want to look up L-Tryptophan instead of 5-HTP. From my understanding (I am no doctor or scientist, but I do research what I put in my body), here is the order your body synthesize Serotonin: Tryptophan > 5-HTP > Serotonin > Melatonin. You may want to start with the Tryptophan itself. However, since taking 5-HTP, I have no interest in trying this out or taking any more of those supplements because I am feeling well now.

It's also recommended to take EGCG (green tea extract) along with 5-HTP to keep your gut from absorbing the supplement and producing Serotonin there instead of in the brain. (It could possibly lead to heart valve failure if you don't!)

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