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Economic Inequality: The Simplified Version

paulgraham.com

51–60 of 118 posts

Re: Economic Inequality: The Simplified Version

#51

> economic inequality per se is not bad So let's grant that economic inequality is good in some cases. Even if this is the case, reducing economic inequality may be the most efficient way to solve a wide variety of societal issues. E.g. how many societies are there with high inequality where the poor aren't discriminated against or pushed around by those with money? Sure, in theory inequality isn't the same as: - Reg…

Its almost certainly true that well-implemented policies of reducing income inequality would fix some of these problems, but that completely ignores negative side effects. The negative side effects are what makes that type of high level policy making bad.

> that completely ignores negative side effects

What I'm saying is that if you take all the possible wealth distribution curves, the efficient frontier probably won't be at the extremes. That's not ignoring the negative side effects, rather it's cost-benefit analysis.

Re: Economic Inequality: The Simplified Version

#53
I don't buy the assertion that startups increase economic inequality. I mean, I suppose some of them might, but a few people getting rich by producing something of value doesn't equate to an increase in general poverty. A startup might even improve economic inequality. Depends what it does. The whole argument seems to boil down to a fear that improving the general welfare might involve slamming the brakes on innovation, but I don't see anyone making the argument that we should do that. If anything, poverty, and its associated problems, is itself a huge brake on innovation. How can you innovate if you're worried about feeding your family tomorrow? Wouldn't people be more likely to take risks like startups if they were less worried about the downsides, like losing their health insurance? Wouldn't there be more innovation if people didn't have to worry about starving because of going without a steady income for a couple of years?

Re: Economic Inequality: The Simplified Version

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they should stop saying they are concerned about "inequality" and start saying they are concerned with "dynastic wealth". This sloppy rhetoric makes it easy for opponents to attack. See, e.g., https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6xxiw And she is absolutely right. Because if "inequality" is the problem then a solution is to shape society so that everyone has $1 rather than the rich having $3 and the poor having $…

People are concerned about egregious opulence while others are barely middling along or are impoverished; there is currently no other configuration in which income inequality exists. The other stuff is a distraction until that isn't the case.

It would be wise to remember that we only speak for ourselves.

Re: Economic Inequality: The Simplified Version

#55
post #13
post #6

I am kind of surprised that PG insist on confusing extreme economic inequality (which is the one most people are talking about when they say it's bad) with normal economic inequality (which most people are totally fine with.) Edited to clear up confusion

This comment doesn't make any sense without defining "extreme" vs "normal" income equality. That is far from obvious. Do you think that technology alone can't produce extreme income inequality? Why?

I cleared up the language, hope it makes it more obvious what I mean.

Re: Economic Inequality: The Simplified Version

#56
post #25

Why do startups necessarily increase economic inequality? I agree that they do now, but is it impossible to have the good of startups without also increasing economic inequality? Out of the usual reasons people encourage you to either found or work for a startup, "get rich" is not the primary motivator, and "get richer than other people" certainly isn't. (To claim that "get rich" implies "get richer than other people…

"Out of the usual reasons people encourage you to either found or work for a startup, "get rich" is not the primary motivator"

in my experience with startups and founders, that is the absolute central motivator, to the point that it is utterly laughable to deny it.

Re: Economic Inequality: The Simplified Version

#57
Economic inequality is bad per se. Here's a good paper on the effects on economic stability of income inequality:

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/sites/default/files/upload...

Income redistribution is a valid goal of taxation -- not because the government needs to tax the rich to fund the poor (the government can fund whatever it wants since it issues the currency) but because tax policy can reduce the types of extreme inequality that cause instability.

When people become wildly rich, they often misattribute that success to their own hard work, ignoring the social conditions that made their success possible, and the role that "good fortune" plays in all such success stories. This talk by Michael Lewis is an excellent summary of why this "meritocratic mindset" is dangerous:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiQ_T5C3hIM

So yes, we should definitely address income inequality directly through tax policy.

We should also address the root causes of poverty, which are primarily lack of government will to pursue full employment since the Friedman/monetarist view of macro economics won out over the Keynsian economic theories during the supply side inflation caused by the oil shocks in the 1970s.

Re: Economic Inequality: The Simplified Version

#59
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Money is power.

It's a very complicated issue. The Capitalist class does deliverer Capitalist development. But at the same time it immediately captures most of the value that it delivers leaving a system of servitude called employment... and systems which are homogenous but yet are functional in the form that is found acceptable to its logic of production and consumption through efficiency.

On the other hand the Capitalist class because it has money and therefore power, at times acts in corrupt ways destroying the environment, taking away people's rights, making things unnecessarily hard.

Given its fight with Communism, it was not as if it played it cool, sitting back and watching and saying, maybe Communism can do certain things better.

Instead it immediately went to war demonizing and fighting it as much as it could.

It seems as if the Capitalist class can only be subdued when it feels that its own game is over. And it seems like we have to let it do just that.

People are greedy and have many social problems. This was one way of ordering them. There are a million other ways of ordering them. Whose time will soon come.

Just sit back and watch the show.

Paul is fan screaming for the home team, when the game is over and they've won. But soon there will be no more games. Their time has come and gone.

Re: Economic Inequality: The Simplified Version

#60
post #46

The reason that economic inequality has become such a talking point is that economic inequality has far reaching ramifications for our society. Many see a return to higher levels of inequality as a reason for slower growth and social problems. The reason why inequality is the problem and not simply poverty is because when the 'target' is poverty, all we do is basically put a band-aid on the problem. We look at the po…

It seems like you are actually agreeing with Paul Graham. You see the concentration of political power and the resulting erosion of the middle class, and you want to fix them. Great! Those are the kind of "bad" sources of inequality the original article is talking about.

Paul doesn't want to ignore these problems, he just wants to call them what they are. The only problem I see is that we don't have a good term to cover all these related concepts. Alternatives like "creeping feudalism" don't have the same ring as "inequality", even if they may be more accurate.

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