Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 71 posts

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#51

Post by GFischer »

learc83 wrote: post #37
emmett wrote: post #3

It's interesting how much it really is a problem of alienation, not of the work itself. Stage magicians who obsessively practice the same motion over and over own their work, own their output, and feel empowered by the hard work and the success it brings. Waiters who do the same thing because a larger machine they do not identify with dictates it feel disconnected. The work itself is a distraction from the real probl…

I think that's the problem for many (if not most) people who are satisfied with their job--a lack of autonomy and ownership. For example, take fry cook A, who works at Wendy's, and fry cook B, who works at an independent restaurant where the owner gives him a good deal of creative control. Fry cook B's job is to make the best damn hamburger he can, and he get's to use his brain a bit. Fry cook A's job is to make the…

That's actually the point Daniel Pink makes on his book Drive

http://deliveringhappiness.com/the-motivation-trifecta-auton...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive:_The_Surprising_Truth_Ab...

"Daniel Pink, in his book, Drive, lists three elements of the motivation formula: autonomy, mastery, and purpose. - "

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#52

Post by geofft »

tene wrote: post #28
geofft wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can totally see why you want that, but a cross-business blacklist on consumers sounds absurdly dystopian. (Maybe this means normal-Yelp is dystopian, and maybe I should have more empathy with small businesses complaining about unfair reviews.)

I've considered this several times before, with similar concerns. The solution that seems like it would mitigate these problems is to have contextual social ratings, rather than global ratings. If I indicate the people that I trust, and transitively trust, then I can see indications of misbehaviour from my social network, rather than "some abusive asshole is rating people poorly for not indulging him enough". Unfortu…

Someone (Airbnb?) was trying to use Facebook login as a similar web of trust, as a proxy for real-world social pressure to be a reasonable human being. I don't think PGP really says anything here, positive or negative, when we have Facebook, which is far far bigger and much more tuned to actual, ongoing social connections.

(and this coming from someone with a key in the strong set, and no Facebook account)

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#53

Post by natrius »

icanhackit wrote: post #11
A_COMPUTER wrote: post #5

I love the commenters describing it as being like a scene from Bonfire of the Vanities or serving Egyptian pharaohs. Speaking from experience, there are plenty of poor people that are at least as aloof, entitled and rude to service staff as rich people, often times even worse. And corporate restaurants/stores mimic the same patterns as shown here, you just get paid less and treated worse.

there are plenty of poor people that are at least as aloof, entitled and rude to service staff as rich people We need a reverse Yelp that reviews humans rather than businesses. So many people fail to follow the Golden Rule in simple, everyday interactions for no discernible advantage to themselves at the cost of dignity, respect and efficiency. Some customers you don't want. And the customer is not always right. A so…

I think this reverse Yelp you describe is coming soon, partially because I plan on helping to build it. A "trade embargo" can be an effective punishment of last resort for any sort of bad behavior, from crime to a failure to contribute to a particular public good. You could use it to take collective action where the state won't, or maybe eventually to replace the state without needing to use force.

You could store people's cryptographic identities and reputations on a global computer than anyone can access, but with rules that no one can break. That now exists, and it's called Ethereum.

An embargo is a pretty harsh punishment, though. In practice, you'd probably only use it when someone fails to provide some lesser form of restitution.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#54

Post by bmelton »

hueving wrote: post #39
bmelton wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not, because assholes like me make it a point to tip anyone who does me any personal service, even when abroad, and even when it isn't of a profession that typically demands it. I don't know why I do it, and I don't really attempt to justify it beyond "This guy did something nice for me and made me believe he enjoyed it, so that is worth at least something" mixed with not wanting to worry about whether or no…

Yes, your behavior is insulting in many cultures and is the reason we even have a law in the US that allows minimum wage exceptions for waiters. Over-tipping is worse than under-tipping on a macro scale.

This might be news, but I'm pretty sure that most people, when they receive a larger than expected cash tip just lie about it and pocket the difference.

Otherwise, sorry that my immoderation has caused so much irreparable harm. Regardless, I'm not likely to change until/unless the system is changed.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#55

Post by unchocked »

everyone wrote: post #36

My main feeling reading about this is that in a well designed society there is no logical reason that such opulence should exist.

You make an excellent argument for why no one should design societies. Inadvertently, I presume.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#56

Post by everyone »

gyardley wrote: post #49
everyone wrote: post #36

My main feeling reading about this is that in a well designed society there is no logical reason that such opulence should exist.

In a well-designed society my wife and I can't voluntarily decide to save up and have a really nice dinner for our anniversary? What kind of person is this designer?

Yeah, that occured to me. My thoughts arent terribly clear on this, but where i am is.. Stuff like, this restarant, bugatti veyrons, luxury yachts etc. shouldnt exist. Producing them is massivley wasteful of resources and they require huge inequality to be viable.

Im sure theres a sustainable, fair, socially responsible way to celebrate your anniversary with a nice dinner, but not whats described in the article, that is insane overkill.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#57

Post by bmelton »

hueving wrote: post #41
msie wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No no no! Hopefully you guys are joking. This is another case of geeks thinking technology and public shaming will cure us all of bad human behaviour. Cynically I think you'll get funding.

It worked with Uber rating drivers and riders. Care to elaborate on why this wouldn't work?

A big, obvious concern would be having a system that alerted you to drivers previously seen exhibiting bad behavior, and the social justice network taking that as an opportunity to avenge the bad behavior and inadvertently causing danger to themselves, their "adversaries" or other drivers on the road.

On top of that, everybody drives poorly at some point, and for some reason. A roommate of mine wrecked his car once like, one block from our house. I couldn't stop laughing at him long enough for him to explain that while he was driving, a spider was crawling out of his ear, and it justifiably freaked him out enough to hit a telephone pole.

If I was a random passerby that didn't get to stick around for the explanation, I would have flagged him as a clear danger to other motorists, which would have been undeserved. To boot, I think he reacted as well as he could have, and probably better than most, given the circumstance.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#58

Post by everyone »

unchocked wrote: post #55
everyone wrote: post #36

My main feeling reading about this is that in a well designed society there is no logical reason that such opulence should exist.

You make an excellent argument for why no one should design societies. Inadvertently, I presume.

No I dont. Thats one throwaway sentence. Its not an excellent argument for or against anything.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#59

Post by greeneggs »

jnbiche wrote: post #30
milspec wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan does this right: nobody tips. Customers pay the restaurant, and the restaurant pays the waiters. Tipping is one small step away from paying bribes. Don't do it. Don't encourage it. Don't accept it.

OK, but this is not Japan, and if you are skipping or skimping on tips here in the US, chances are you're screwing over a relatively poor person. US law allows restaurants to pay waiters and waitresses well below minimum wage, under the assumption that their tips will make up the difference. But I suspect I'll not convince you.

"US law allows restaurants to pay waiters and waitresses well below minimum wage, under the assumption that their tips will make up the difference."

Except on the West Coast... Alaska, Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Minnesota and Montana all have the same minimum wage for tipped and non-tipped employees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_Stat...

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#60

Post by everyone »

unchocked wrote: post #55
everyone wrote: post #36

My main feeling reading about this is that in a well designed society there is no logical reason that such opulence should exist.

You make an excellent argument for why no one should design societies. Inadvertently, I presume.

Also we design out societies incrementally all the time, in all sorts of ways. Introducing new legislation and repealing old ones being one small example. Also some societies work markedly better than others and theres huge amounts of data to support that. As a very crude indication you could compare countries quality of life vs GDP. Countries with a higher quality of life / GDP are using their resources more efficiently to improve their citizena quality of life.
Post reply on HN