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Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

nytimes.com

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Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#21

Post by roymurdock »

lvs wrote: post #18
roymurdock wrote: post #7

From the comments section: This article is absurd in that this type of work is neither as good or as bad as anything remotely described here. Being a waiter, myself for 24 years including 3 star Michelin (NYC), was a practical, enjoyable professional job in which I dealt with the public. Guests were almost always friendly people looking to have an enjoyable time. This type of writing is bombastic and provocative but…

It is common for two people working, even side-by-side, not to view their job the same way. I'm certain we've all experienced that. Your response to the piece, and that of the commenter you cite, is more indicative of your own mindset about the world rather than the motives of the author.

Yeah, it was my opinion. I'm glad my comment conveyed my mindset about the world. That means I was successful in expressing said opinion :)

Now, I alone can't say whether or not my opinion is right - that's why these lovely forums exist so that we can bounce ideas/anecdotes/opinions off each other!

---

For the people who are downvoting this comment: why don't you contribute your opinion so we can have a discussion? A Socratic dialectic? A good old knowledge swap? Spin me a yarn!

This intense, insecure need to be statistically, beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt RIGHT (whatever that means) all of the time is killing/derailing countless discussions around HN.

The rules of the forum are simple: have an opinion, don't be a dick. Leave a comment so we can learn from each other.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#22

Post by detaro »

wpietri wrote: post #16
quesera wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need a reverse Yelp that reviews humans rather than businesses. I'd like that for drivers . My vehicle should be aware of the vehicles nearby and the likely drivers thereof, and present me with a HUD showing the poorly-reviewed in red.

I have often imagined a dashcam that does license plate recognition and lets you know when shitty drivers are nearby. And of course, it would have voice response so you could give nearby cars compliments and public grumbles. Presumably you'd also want it to be geosensitive and real time, so that it could say, "Hey, there's a lunatic coming up behind you." Seems like it would be easy to put together a dash stand, some…

Wasn't there a "report my driving for everybody" or something along those lines on HN in the past few days?

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#23

Post by mst »

geofft wrote: post #19
icanhackit wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are plenty of poor people that are at least as aloof, entitled and rude to service staff as rich people We need a reverse Yelp that reviews humans rather than businesses. So many people fail to follow the Golden Rule in simple, everyday interactions for no discernible advantage to themselves at the cost of dignity, respect and efficiency. Some customers you don't want. And the customer is not always right. A so…

I can totally see why you want that, but a cross-business blacklist on consumers sounds absurdly dystopian. (Maybe this means normal-Yelp is dystopian, and maybe I should have more empathy with small businesses complaining about unfair reviews.)

Many metropolitan areas in .uk have a shared blacklist used by a group of bars - get thrown out of one permanently, don't try and join any of the others.

I've encountered a number of people sanctioned by that system who still believe in it overall.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#25

Post by protomyth »

wpietri wrote: post #15
wtbob wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Speaking from experience, there are plenty of poor people that are at least as aloof, entitled and rude to service staff as rich people, often times even worse. Yup. One of my brothers was a waiter for many years in a town where it was easy to tell the lower classes from the upper; it wasn't just common for him to receive no or little tip when he waited on members of the lower classes, it was the rule . In years, I…

For me, there are two big differences. One, I'm more willing to forgive those with less privilege for errors of ignorance or misplaced reactions to trauma. Part of what privilege gets you is space to learn and to work our your issues. Two, poor people can't afford to buy much in the way of service, so their ability to mistreat other poor people is limited. The richer the person, though, the more personal service they…

No. Just no. Poor or rich, if you go out then human decency is a requirement. If you go out, have the cash for the tip. Justifying poor behavior because someone is poor or rich relieves them of personal responsibility. My family was poor for a while, and I was always taught to respect people[1].

1) unless they became a danger or acted like fools, then protect everyone else from them

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#26

Post by msie »

wpietri wrote: post #16
quesera wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need a reverse Yelp that reviews humans rather than businesses. I'd like that for drivers . My vehicle should be aware of the vehicles nearby and the likely drivers thereof, and present me with a HUD showing the poorly-reviewed in red.

I have often imagined a dashcam that does license plate recognition and lets you know when shitty drivers are nearby. And of course, it would have voice response so you could give nearby cars compliments and public grumbles. Presumably you'd also want it to be geosensitive and real time, so that it could say, "Hey, there's a lunatic coming up behind you." Seems like it would be easy to put together a dash stand, some…

No no no! Hopefully you guys are joking. This is another case of geeks thinking technology and public shaming will cure us all of bad human behaviour. Cynically I think you'll get funding.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#27

Post by milspec »

wtbob wrote: post #8
A_COMPUTER wrote: post #5

I love the commenters describing it as being like a scene from Bonfire of the Vanities or serving Egyptian pharaohs. Speaking from experience, there are plenty of poor people that are at least as aloof, entitled and rude to service staff as rich people, often times even worse. And corporate restaurants/stores mimic the same patterns as shown here, you just get paid less and treated worse.

> Speaking from experience, there are plenty of poor people that are at least as aloof, entitled and rude to service staff as rich people, often times even worse. Yup. One of my brothers was a waiter for many years in a town where it was easy to tell the lower classes from the upper; it wasn't just common for him to receive no or little tip when he waited on members of the lower classes, it was the rule . In years, I…

Japan does this right: nobody tips. Customers pay the restaurant, and the restaurant pays the waiters.

Tipping is one small step away from paying bribes. Don't do it. Don't encourage it. Don't accept it.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#28

Post by tene »

geofft wrote: post #19
icanhackit wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are plenty of poor people that are at least as aloof, entitled and rude to service staff as rich people We need a reverse Yelp that reviews humans rather than businesses. So many people fail to follow the Golden Rule in simple, everyday interactions for no discernible advantage to themselves at the cost of dignity, respect and efficiency. Some customers you don't want. And the customer is not always right. A so…

I can totally see why you want that, but a cross-business blacklist on consumers sounds absurdly dystopian. (Maybe this means normal-Yelp is dystopian, and maybe I should have more empathy with small businesses complaining about unfair reviews.)

I've considered this several times before, with similar concerns. The solution that seems like it would mitigate these problems is to have contextual social ratings, rather than global ratings. If I indicate the people that I trust, and transitively trust, then I can see indications of misbehaviour from my social network, rather than "some abusive asshole is rating people poorly for not indulging him enough".

Unfortunately, this reminds me of PGP's web of trust, and that never really took off. It may be that it failed entirely due to other issues (pgp's terrible UI, encryption is hard and nobody cares), but it's not a great sign.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#29

Post by rwallace »

msie wrote: post #26
wpietri wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have often imagined a dashcam that does license plate recognition and lets you know when shitty drivers are nearby. And of course, it would have voice response so you could give nearby cars compliments and public grumbles. Presumably you'd also want it to be geosensitive and real time, so that it could say, "Hey, there's a lunatic coming up behind you." Seems like it would be easy to put together a dash stand, some…

No no no! Hopefully you guys are joking. This is another case of geeks thinking technology and public shaming will cure us all of bad human behaviour. Cynically I think you'll get funding.

Actually that's a bloody brilliant idea. In an ideal world, morality or enlightened self-interest would convince everyone to behave well. The real world falls far short of that ideal, but social pressure is often a powerful tool for filling in the gaps. You'd think "you might die" would deter drunk drivers, but it didn't. "Everyone will think you're an asshole" was more effective. Let's extend that to other forms of misbehaviour on the road. The point here isn't the technology. It's using the technology to save lives.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#30

Post by jnbiche »

milspec wrote: post #27
wtbob wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Speaking from experience, there are plenty of poor people that are at least as aloof, entitled and rude to service staff as rich people, often times even worse. Yup. One of my brothers was a waiter for many years in a town where it was easy to tell the lower classes from the upper; it wasn't just common for him to receive no or little tip when he waited on members of the lower classes, it was the rule . In years, I…

Japan does this right: nobody tips. Customers pay the restaurant, and the restaurant pays the waiters. Tipping is one small step away from paying bribes. Don't do it. Don't encourage it. Don't accept it.

OK, but this is not Japan, and if you are skipping or skimping on tips here in the US, chances are you're screwing over a relatively poor person. US law allows restaurants to pay waiters and waitresses well below minimum wage, under the assumption that their tips will make up the difference.

But I suspect I'll not convince you.

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