I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling • Hacker News Board

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#491

Post by necovek » Fri, Jun 05, 2026, 6:05 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #420

necovek wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps worth reading through the rest of the comment too? I had other teachers where it was easy to pass and get good grades (As even), but I did not call them out as good. Before jumping to conclusions, maybe ask for context too? In particular, this was a high school for gifted math kids, and what I learned through regular classes let me pass math uni entrance exam in the top 10 (out of ~500 students) with no extra…

Well, I don't know you, your teacher, or even what subject we're discussing but you wrote that you did "not have to bother with homework and assignments". Perhaps you would have learned more if the instruction had not failed to make you study? :P

Whether they'd be able to make me study (it was a mathematical analysis course, though I do not think it matters) is a question that'd be hard to answer — I was already highly motivated with different topics: I was spending my time reading on CS topics like algorithm complexity, operating system development and building software interfacing with hardware. So another possible outcome would have been that I simply learned less of it due to lousy instruction — which was the case with a few other subjects.

Sometimes a teacher can also do a great job of getting you interested (also important) but I was focusing on quality instruction.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#492

Post by BeetleB » Fri, Jun 05, 2026, 6:06 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #480

BeetleB wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that in that culture boys/girls did not value the other party unless they were academically similar...? I can believe it, but I don't know if it's true. Obviously not true in the US.

I'm suggesting that in Chinese culture, academic success is an effective way to impress girls.

Or ... for them to impress guys?

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#493

Post by HappMacDonald » Fri, Jun 05, 2026, 6:08 PM UTC

graemep wrote: post #344

rimliu wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very close to "Why use brains".

No its not, its why use your brains for useless things. Because my kids did not spend as much time on arithmetic and rote learning they learned algebra much earlier than most do. My older daughter did IGCSE physics when she was 11 and maths when she was 12 as a result. Their ability to read was always well ahead of average for their age.

Learning to read must have meant memorizing vocabulary though, right?

A multiplication table is just a single-digit multiplication vocabulary.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#494

Post by beej71 » Fri, Jun 05, 2026, 6:10 PM UTC

win311fwg wrote: post #439

atoav wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but as an university level educator I have to stress that the vast majority of students suck at understanding what they will need to know to be good at the juicy bits that interested them in the first place. Our task isn't just to teach them what they are interested in. Our task (among others) is to prepare them for a life after university in their profession(s) while giving them the practical skill of learning…

> I personally think I would fail my students on a personal level if I let them go through my education and have them ill-prepared for the world that faces them outside. While it is great that you are willing to help those in need catch up, something has gone horribly wrong with primary sources of education and lived experience if someone reaches the university level before being prepared for the world. In fact, give…

> something has gone horribly wrong with primary sources of education and lived experience if someone reaches the university level before being prepared for the world

I think the GP's idea is that university is part of getting prepared for the world. And for many students, university is the final culmination of their preparation.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#495

Post by kelseyfrog » Fri, Jun 05, 2026, 6:18 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #417

kelseyfrog wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, known as Bloom's Two Sigma Problem[1]. Like most hard problems we know the solution, but lack the appetite to implement. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_2_sigma_problem

The study picked an artificial and useless proxy. What did tutored students go on to do? Were they over represented in Nobel Prizes, hedge fund billionaires, heads of state? Or did they do well on a meaningless test and then forget all about whatever they “learned” just like everyone else? The entire field is absolutely littered with this problem. Everyone is targeting cholesterol and not all cause mortality.

What evidence would change your mind?

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#496

Post by tombert » Fri, Jun 05, 2026, 6:18 PM UTC

beej71 wrote: post #487

tombert wrote: post #70

I'm not the first person to state this, but it bears repeating: nearly everyone thinks that they know the right way to teach, and most people don't. I'm not exempting myself from this. I was an adjunct lecturer for two semesters. I did have some fun with it, but it was way harder than I thought it would be, and I think that university is probably considerably easier than elementary or high school. I had students that…

After 20 industry years, I've been teaching CS for the last 7. I sincerely hope that I figure it out before I retire. :) Doing this job effectively is more challenging than anything I've done in my career. I've read a lot about teaching, and it's amazing how much of it doesn't resonate for me. What has been the absolute best is sitting in on other instructors' classes and learning from them. And being completely flex…

Yeah, honestly if I were to do the lecturing again, I would probably get some training first.

I, like a lot of people, thought it would be relatively easy for me because I've always been relatively good at explaining things to people on an individual level. For example, at previous jobs I was the person who was there to help explain functional programming concepts to people from different backgrounds, and I was often tasked as being the "theory guy" for the junior engineers when they were having trouble optimizing.

But there were some problems with my thinking. First, sort of by definition if someone is asking for help they're kind of invested with paying attention and understanding the concept. Second, there's a pretty big difference between explaining something to a single person (especially a person you already kind of know) and an entire class of ~15-20 people, all of which are different humans with different histories and backgrounds.

I also think I took things a bit more personally than I should have. I didn't have any training or practice, and I just jumped right into the teaching part. I think I did "ok" given that, but that's not exactly reassuring..."My professor for the class I paid money for wasn't quite as bad as he could have been."

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#497

Post by teslabox » Fri, Jun 05, 2026, 6:20 PM UTC

roysting wrote: post #233

I am a bit surprised that not in the subject article nor anywhere else in this thread, as of my writing this, does there seem to be any mention of John Taylor Gatto or any of his books. He is a bit of a polarizing figure because he was a teacher of 26 years in NYC and was awarded the NY teacher of the year award two months before he published his famous resignation letter “I Quit, I Think”[1] For anyone who is at all…

John Gatto's books and talks are all very insightful. His old website had the full text of The Underground History of American Education for free.

Archive.org crawled the site: https://web.archive.org/web/20260000000000*/johntaylorgatto.... (check the versions from maybe 10 years ago...)

IIRC he had a stroke, and finally passed away. Now https://JohnTaylorGatto.com redirects to his youtube channel.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#498

Post by GarnetFloride » Fri, Jun 05, 2026, 6:20 PM UTC

Some people looking for ways to extract wealth through the school system. There are always cuts at the classroom level but more money than ever at the admin level.

Some people are actively trying to sabotage the school system because the uneducated are easy to manipulate.

Any effort to change schooling needs to take those things into account.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#499

Post by dominotw » Fri, Jun 05, 2026, 6:21 PM UTC

GarnetFloride wrote: post #498

Some people looking for ways to extract wealth through the school system. There are always cuts at the classroom level but more money than ever at the admin level. Some people are actively trying to sabotage the school system because the uneducated are easy to manipulate. Any effort to change schooling needs to take those things into account.

comment is competely devoid of any logic or facts. pure emotion.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#500

Post by tombert » Fri, Jun 05, 2026, 6:25 PM UTC

beej71 wrote: post #489

tombert wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue honestly until graduate school too. Undergrad still has a lot of required courses that aren't directly related to your major, and it can be draining. I'm not saying this is a "bad" thing, having a well rounded education is important, but it's still a lot of stuff that a lot of students don't want to do. Graduate school is more fun, and in some senses kind of easier (for want of a better word). Sure, the wor…

> Undergrad still has a lot of required courses that aren't directly related to your major, and it can be draining. This is why I LOVED getting my MS. Just computer science all the time! Heaven! None of those pesky, worthless general ed classes! I was just a dumb college kid. I'm convinced I'd have done better in life overall if I'd taken those GE courses seriously and made the effort to be a more well-rounded indivi…

I go back and forth; part of what bothers me is how I'm paying for these GE courses.

Like, for example, I took a multicultural film course in college the first time around. I love movies, I love analyzing everything about movies, I love discussing themes and metaphors that are in movies, and I even love writing long essays pondering movies, and I enjoyed the class.

That said...is a multicultural film course really worth ~$1200 and like 10 weeks of my time? Maybe to some people, but it certainly wasn't for me.